Generation Kill

[utak]

One thing I noticed is that the actors who play Captain Patterson as well as Captain "Encino Man" look very much alike, so when they are all jocked up, it's kinda hard to figure out which is which.

 

[phrogdriver]

Okay, so here's a huge question that looms among us butter bars...

Lt Fick did great things, and his book and speaking circuit is what has inspired a lot of people to becom 2ndLts. But what I can't figure out is why, oh why, is it that all of the people who came up with Fick, i.e all company commanders in the Marine Corps and all captains at TBS, wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire?

The only reason my peers and I can come up with is that they went through the same things as he did, but they stayed in and he got out and made a ton of money. It's not like he drug the Marine Corps or any Marines through the dirt. His book reflected very favorably upon Marines, but his peers still hate him. What gives?

I only know what I've seen on the show, not having read Gen Kill or read his book. Sometimes what peers think is a lot different than what subordinates and/or superiors think, right or wrong. Sometimes it's for valid reasons, i.e. a story behind the story, sometimes not. Maybe some jealousy, maybe just the feeling that, "I did as good or better job, and all I got was a campaign medal, not featured in a book and movie."

Honestly, for another example, I kind of respect Ilario Pantano, another famous, or perhaps notorious former Lt. Although probably rolling in dough from his private sector work before his commissioning and his book after, he signed on with the New Hanover County Sheriff's office in Wilmington, NC.

 

[Uncle Fester]

For good or ill, very seldom does anything good come from someone in the military becoming famous, at least as far as your peers are concerned. Maybe it's jealousy, maybe it's the "real story" as phrog mentioned, maybe it's just the ready room cowboys association (or grunt equivalent, in this case). But no matter what you actually say or do or write, how modestly you present your story or how you conduct yourself, making money or gaining fame off your exploits in uniform will not win you friends.

 

[jt71582]

I just finished watching the 3rd episode...awesome.

 

[SDNalgene]

I just finished watching the 3rd episode...awesome.

Really? Cause I just watched it and all I really got out of it was the following:

1) Godfather is kissass who is concerned only with pleasing his superior. This was tempered by his explanation on the CAS evac situation, but it's been a growing theme through the 3 episodes.

2) All officers save Fick are incompetent, self serving, or stupid. Sometimes all three. Wow, The Basic School must be really easy....

3) The war is incredibly disorganized and there is no overarching strategy.

4) Marines routinely engage unarmed civilians, with the not so veiled implication that it is intentional.

5) Every decision is questioned publicly and in a tactless way, which then results in public threats of NJP and court martial.

6) Marines, including NCOs and SNCOs, routinely question the competency of their commanders in front of and with their subordinates.

I could go on, but why bother. I continue to like the portrayal of enlisted Marines and how they view the world. I understand that "Generation Kill" strives to portray the war from the perspective of an enlisted grunt. However, the last episode seemed to go out of its way to paint Marine Corps leadership in a very negative light. It seems to me that it is very easy to take pot shots at combat decisions, but they really don't appear to be at all concerned with being fair. I am not a grunt so this is an uneducated guess, but if the leadership of that battalion was really as bad as they were portrayed in that episode then it is a miracle that anyone in the battalion lived through the first 3 weeks. They are either the luckiest Marines alive, or "Generation Kill" has exaggerated or distorted events to make the point that its author and directors wanted to make, regardless of whether that is fair or not. I am leaning toward the latter. I will definitely continue to watch, but this "officers suck" theme is wearing thin.

 

[jt71582]

I agree completely...I was just meaning to emphasize my addiction to the show. I have no idea what actually happened to those Marines, and I realize that this is just a Hollywood reproduction.

Don't take my enthusiasm as an opinion of agreement with how the leadership was portrayed.

 

[invertedflyer]

SDNalgene.

I'd suggest reading Capt. Fick's book for a better understanding of the events.

I don't believe the BN CO, OPS-O, or Alpha Company Commander were protrayed in a negative light, simply following orders.

Granted, mistakes were made.. read the book.

 

[pourts]

SDNalgene.

I'd suggest reading Capt. Fick's book for a better understanding of the events.

Or read Shoup's response to Generation Kill that was posted earlier in the thread.

 

[SDNalgene]

I have read both. My issue isn't with the actual officers or events. I don't expect war to be perfect nor do I expect those who practice it to be perfect either. I was just venting on how far the author and directors of "Generation Kill" have gone to paint the leadership from the battalion level on down as inept, self serving fools.

 

[Insomneo]

Thanks to the guys who posted the online links. I watched the first two episodes while staying on a Marine base in San Diego (free HBO whooohooo). But now I am back home and cannot watch it due to the lack of HBO. I really liked the episodes I saw and am glad that I can see the rest of the show.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Why do the infantry guys all have tape across the front of their optics/binoculars?

 

[jt71582]

Minimize reflection?

 

[invertedflyer]

I have read both. My issue isn't with the actual officers or events. I don't expect war to be perfect nor do I expect those who practice it to be perfect either. I was just venting on how far the author and directors of "Generation Kill" have gone to paint the leadership from the battalion level on down as inept, self serving fools.

+1 agreed. Shoup's account highlighted that Wright made the leadership look worse than it really was.

 

[skidkid]

Why do the infantry guys all have tape across the front of their optics/binoculars?

A cheap way to minimize reflection and glare.

 

[jt71582]

A cheap way to minimize reflection and glare.

Awesome. I figured out something tactical, all my myself!