Slippery Decks and Hornet Toe-Ins

[Steve Davies]

Two questions from a self-confessed Naval aviation ignoramus:

1) Has the Navy developed a coating for carrier decks that does not wear off by the end of a cruise?

All the books I have read about Naval aviation talk about jets slipping about and (occasionally) falling over the side because the deck's rough coating has worn out and been replaced with a greasy, smooth undersurface.

I wondered if a solution had been found?

2) Why do the Hornet/Super Hornet's rudders toe-in on a cat shot?

I appreciate the flight control computer does this, but don't you want minimum drag as you make your steam assisted launch off the boat?

It occurred to me that the drag might actually help raise the nose, but then i thought that with the Hornet's legendary low-speed handling, the stabs probably provide plenty of nose authority by the time the jet reaches the end of the cat

 

[Uncle Fester]

You're that guy who asks all the weird, obscure questions at airshows, aren't you?

I keed! I keed!

 

[Steve Davies]

You're that guy who asks all the weird, obscure questions at airshows, aren't you?

I keed! I keed!

That's me, and I am proud of it!

 

[jarhead]

2) Why do the Hornet/Super Hornet's rudders toe-in on a cat shot?

the rudder toe-in helps pitch the nose up on takeoff

S/F

 

[Single Seat]

Rudder toe in is a function of AOA and flap position. Like jarhead said it's to help with pitch authority (not just nose up though). The rudders will toe out at low speed/high AOA to try and help push the nose over. It's actually quite a substantial amount of nose authority as well. With certain failures of FCS modes and flaps, there are warnings and cautions about the substantial increase in back stick you'll have to use in order to rotate to a normal pitch attitude on a bolter, etc.

Non-skid is great when it's new. Inevitably it succumbs to the rigors of abuse though. Nothing you can do about that. Plus when you combine 6 months of cat grease, fuel, grease, hyd fluid, engine oil, cross deck pendant grease, etc. all lathered up, on a hot and humid night in the Persian Gulf ya it gets slicker than snot. Throw on top of that a little bit of roll or pitch on the deck and things can get fun. It'll scare the hell out of you at night, especially on the 1am recovery when they taxi you all the way up to the bow and you can't see anything.

 

[DanMa1156]

With that said about the non-skid; has anyone seen an aircraft fall off the deck by accident? I imagine some of the older guys have; but anyone seen it happen recently?

 

[Old R.O.]

Most of the sides of the flight deck have "scuppers" which is like a 6" lip that keeps things on board. Once, in the SoCal OpArea off San Diego, the ship hit a rogue swell and rolled 10 or 20 degrees. One of the Phantoms on the flight deck broke three of the four tiedowns and swung around the deck until the mainmounts (main landing gear) hit the scupper as the aircraft was going backwards. The nosegear went about 5 feet into the air and hung there for a couple of seconds until it came back down. At that point about 300 blueshirts/yellowshirts/greenshirts descended on the aircraft with tiedowns and put a stop to its unauthorized travels.

 

[Single Seat]

Had a Harrier guy tell me a jet of theirs "disappeared" after a night traversing dangerous seas. Sun came up, weather broke, jet was missing.

 

[FLY_USMC]

The jet actually accelerates faster on a normal takeoff if you add some forward stick, fares the stab rather than having it pitched up like a giant speedbrake.....or so I'm told.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Non-skid has evolved over the years. Is it perfect, no, but it much better than the non-skid of the 80's. Every once in a while while on deployment, the flight deck personnel perform a "scrub-ex." They use soap, salt-water and straw brooms to de-grease the flight deck.

It helps tremendously, but the non-skid is still beat up and starts to wear toward the end of cruise. They have been using metal incorporated into the non-skid and this has proven to lengthen the life-span of non-skid.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Gatordev]

With that said about the non-skid; has anyone seen an aircraft fall off the deck by accident? I imagine some of the older guys have; but anyone seen it happen recently?

I've both slid sideways while inside and had an aircraft slide on me while traversing it on a small boy. Fortunately, we have other means of keeping it attached to the ship so it "shouldn't" depart, but it's an unnerving feeling.

 

[jus2mch]

Non-skid has evolved over the years. Is it perfect, no, but it much better than the non-skid of the 80's. Every once in a while while on deployment, the flight deck personnel perform a "scrub-ex." They use soap, salt-water and straw brooms to de-grease the flight deck.

It helps tremendously, but the non-skid is still beat up and starts to wear toward the end of cruise. They have been using metal incorporated into the non-skid and this has proven to lengthen the life-span of non-skid.

-ea6bflyr

The Suck-ex is the worst at night. Cold wet feet and your boots turn white. At least you cleared up why it's done. I always thought it was just another way to make AN hate life.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I've both slid sideways while inside and had an aircraft slide on me while traversing it on a small boy. Fortunately, we have other means of keeping it attached to the ship so it "shouldn't" depart, but it's an unnerving feeling.

I had really crappy brakes on one bird - so even though the parking brake was set, I kept rolling/sliding closer and closer to the deck edge. I know what you mean by unnerving...

 

[Gatordev]

I had really crappy brakes on one bird - so even though the parking brake was set, I kept rolling/sliding closer and closer to the deck edge. I know what you mean by unnerving...

The issues I had were actually lateral, although I've had brakes slip a couple of times too. But yeah, it's not right when, as you feel the ship heel over, you feel yourself slide a little farther than the ship has gone.

 

[ea6bflyr]

The Suck-ex is the worst at night. Cold wet feet and your boots turn white. At least you cleared up why it's done. I always thought it was just another way to make AN hate life.

Trust me, I lost more flight deck boots due to Scrub-Ex's. The Turco (sp?) soap really eats away at the threads in the soles. Talking shoes.

Agreed it felt like Airman suppression, but I always knew the reason. Try driving a million pound tow tractor around a slick deck.

-ea6bflyr