Was this in early 2001?
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TH-57 fleet grounding
- Thread starter Flying Low
- Start date
Was this in early 2001?
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Yup. I had one flight left in the HT's at the time (a night TransFam). I was in the air when it happened, observing an RI and then I was supposed to roll into my night TransFam. We were up P-Cola approach and heard something along the lines of "This is Pensacola Approach on guard. All HT-18 aircraft contact your base." I remember thinking "That can't be good." It wasn't. If I remember correctly it was a Saudi instructor and two Navy studs.
The Stud in the front seat was our roommate. Awesome guy. He was in the hospital for about a week (IIRC) and was Med down for a few months since his back was pretty messed up, but ended up winging eventually, as did the other stud. We had some mangled piece of tail assembly on our mantel for the rest of our time in lovely Milton.
As to your question about how they avoided class Alpha, the story I heard (and keep in mind that don't really know what I'm talking about here so I could have this totally wrong), was that they were salvaging any part possible-- any washer, bolt, etc. that could be used-- so as not to to make it Alpha.
As to your question about how they avoided class Alpha, the story I heard (and keep in mind that don't really know what I'm talking about here so I could have this totally wrong), was that they were salvaging any part possible-- any washer, bolt, etc. that could be used-- so as not to to make it Alpha.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I had heard that both guys ended up getting winged, which is always good to hear. I remember a safety stand-down immediately afterwards where they showed us the pictures and told us that the 206 is the safest aircraft ever manufactured (and mishaps per 100,000 flight hours - it's true. Mainly because so many civilians fly it racking up the hours).
As for salvaging any part, that really doesn't hold a whole lot of water. They had to have enough of the original airframe to rebuild it. Nuts & Bolts don't count. If I remember correctly, for a Phrog - as long as you had everything forward of the factory splice intact it wouldn't be stricken. I don't know where they drew the line for that with the TH-57C... Again, it looked pretty messed up to my non-saftey center trained eyes...
It looked *really* messed up to my non-aviator eyes. I remember that when I first saw the photo, it took me a second to figure to which way the aircraft was even facing. I was completely awed that all three of them were able to exit that pile of wreckage essentially under their own power.
Why is it that the larger a/c are unable to auto in? Is there a certain point where a helicopter just becomes to heavy to do it, no matter how much airspeed/alt he's got? I guess if you're in a 53E you've got three engines to deal with - if you lose all three, you're having a very, very bad day.
You're on crack dude. Stay a flight school student AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. Look at FLYTPAY and 'Bates.
They can still auto in, it's just that the margin for error is less and the consequences of misjudgment are greater. Misjudge your pull in a 2000ish-pound helo and you might spread the skids. Misjudge it in a 50000 pound helo and the gear will be going through the belly at a minimum.
The training risk vs. reward ORM thing doesn't really justify practicing full autos in the bigger fleet aircraft, though Hueys and Cobra do some.
True, and that's why I like 3 engines.
For the curious, autorotations reverse the airflow from downwards to upwards through the rotors. Autos are all about saving your rotor RPM for the bottom flare/cushion combo. If you start the profile late, you may not have enough RPM to auto or recover at the bottom and you'll hit the ground like a ton of crap. If there is a flat area of terra firma to land, I think most would prefer to run it on (if feasible) otherwise if you are landing in the water or on trees, it's best obviously for 0 airspeed, 0 altitude.
. Basically the same principle in all helos.
Alright...as a restricted Naval Aviator, bear with me here guys...
Can't you practice an auto-rotation with a hard deck the same way us Maritime weenies practice ditches?
What am I missing?
That's almost exactly what a power recovery auto is.
Alright...as a restricted Naval Aviator, bear with me here guys...
Can't you practice an auto-rotation with a hard deck the same way us Maritime weenies practice ditches?
What am I missing?
What is your hard deck? 300 feet 180 KIAS?
Autos in dual-engine military helicopters tend to be for tail rotor or transmission issues rather than dual engine failure.
As to the other question, the 206/57 has a much higher inertia head than modern military helicopters. And you would only need to goon up one full auto in a fleet bird to make the full auto training stop making sense (not that we aren't gooning up more than enough power-recovery types). A large number of the B/C auto related mishaps in the -60 would have been A's with dead people had they been attempting full autos (though that may have induced people to wave off rather than "save" a poor attempt).
As to the other question, the 206/57 has a much higher inertia head than modern military helicopters. And you would only need to goon up one full auto in a fleet bird to make the full auto training stop making sense (not that we aren't gooning up more than enough power-recovery types). A large number of the B/C auto related mishaps in the -60 would have been A's with dead people had they been attempting full autos (though that may have induced people to wave off rather than "save" a poor attempt).
The problem was -46 types not really understanding how to auto a -60, and then trying to teach a student how to auto (IMHO).