F-35B/C Lightning II (Joint Strike Fighter)

[Birdog8585]

^^Nice...

Recent JSF vid for the JSF droolers

...something about that single engine hover that makes me a bit uneasy...then again, I guess "EJECT" is a little less brain intensive than, "Down, Right, Idle, Pull, Pause, Level, Cushion, Cushion, Cushion...did it work?...can I feel my legs?....whew"

 

[Swanee]

^^Nice...

Recent JSF vid for the JSF droolers

Is that PAX River? Maybe it's an optical illusion, but that runway looks kind of, unlevel or hilly.

 

[Banjo33]

As Fog said above, the Wall Street Journal published an article today that the JSF price has increased from $50 million to over $113 million per aircraft. Couldn't read the entire article as im not a subscriber. If anyone here is, it'd be interesting to read the whole thing. I've got a feeling this program is doomed unless something drastic happens.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

As Fog said above, the Wall Street Journal published an article today that the JSF price has increased from $50 million to over $113 million per aircraft. Couldn't read the entire article as im not a subscriber. If anyone here is, it'd be interesting to read the whole thing. I've got a feeling this program is doomed unless something drastic happens.

It is my understanding that the price is supposed to go down once it is in full production. I don't doubt that it will be more than 50 million though. Aren't new supers more than that?

 

[HAWK22]

No way the price will go down. I smell another F-22 order gouge brewing. Not to mention if foreign countries start questioning their commitments or pull chocks, price per unit will go through the roof. I agree that it might be a good idea for the Marine Corps to look at the C model in terms of reduced costs or higher initial production levels, but ultimately there is no way they would ever purchase F-35C's and have zero capability to launch them from an LHD.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

No way the price will go down. I smell another F-22 order gouge brewing. Not to mention if foreign countries start questioning their commitments or pull chocks, price per unit will go through the roof. I agree that it might be a good idea for the Marine Corps to look at the C model in terms of reduced costs or higher initial production levels, but ultimately there is no way they would ever purchase F-35C's and have zero capability to launch them from an LHD.

The costs are greater in the start of the program, and once the production line is running the costs are supposed to go down. A lot can still go wrong, but that doesn't mean that it definitely will. It is currently over budget, and if other countries pull out of the program then that will also hurt the overall cost by reducing the scale of production. New Super Hornets already cost well over $50 million. One thing the F-35 program has going for it is that there isn't another real option right now that doesn't involve buying more of a previous generation of planes.

I think it is way too early to say that there is "no way" that the Marines will not buy any C models. The fact is that the Marines spending the Department of the Navy's money, and each Marine squadron that flies off a carrier is one less Navy squadron that big navy has to pay for. I think it is unlikely that the Marines will replace all of their jets with STOVL F-35's.

 

[Swanee]

The costs are greater in the start of the program, and once the production line is running the costs are supposed to go down. A lot can still go wrong, but that doesn't mean that it definitely will. It is currently over budget, and if other countries pull out of the program then that will also hurt the overall cost by reducing the scale of production. New Super Hornets already cost well over $50 million. One thing the F-35 program has going for it is that there isn't another real option right now that doesn't involve buying more of a previous generation of planes.

I think it is way too early to say that there is "no way" that the Marines will not buy any C models. The fact is that the Marines spending the Department of the Navy's money, and each Marine squadron that flies off a carrier is one less Navy squadron that big navy has to pay for. I think it is unlikely that the Marines will replace all of their jets with STOVL F-35's.

I don't know dude, last time I checked big Navy gets to foot the bill for the entire USMC....

 

[Birdog8585]

Here's some ammo for the cost issue: Unit costs will go from the initial $50M a copy to $95M. GAO predicts higher, and the GAO...ehh...nevermind.

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/03/11/jsf-costs-rocket-50-percent/

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I don't know dude, last time I checked big Navy gets to foot the bill for the entire USMC....

I think you missed my point. The Navy wants to fill air wings. The Marines want to support the Marines. It doesn't make sense that the Navy will allow the Marines to replace all of their jets with F-35's that won't go to the carriers, because that would force the Navy to equip more squadrons to replace the Marines that once went on the ship.

 

[Fog]

FWIW: The WSJ article today was quite brief & simply said that the cost of the F-35 program has more than doubled since 2001 such that anticipated unit costs are now $113MM per a/c. The article then opined that this will likely adversely affect the number of a/c acquired by each service as well as foreign buyers. John McCain chimed in that he's getting tired of military program cost overruns.

If the Navy can get a multi-year procurement deal from Boeing for Super Hornets @ $50MM per, I hope they & the administration will jump on it. IMHO, we (Navy) only need the F-35C if we ever have to fight the Russkies or Chinese. We don't need anything it does for conflicts like Iraq & Afghanistan - although it would be nice if they could squeeze another 30 minutes of endurance/range out of the airframe & engines. JMHO.

 

[Banjo33]

We met with some o-5/6's today from the Pentagon. We were informed that yes, costs have increased, but not nearly to the scale that WSJ is reporting. It's readily apparent that JSF is the future, period. The marines aren't planning to buy C's right now. However, DCA is onboard with the idea of TAI...we just have to prove to the Navy (again) that VSTOL can operate effectively off the CVN. I think it has more to do with convincing Congress big Navy needs more CVNs. If they convince USMC that we HAVE to buy C's to operate from the carrier, then they get more budget for boats. Knowing what I know now, the Navy needs lots more boats...so this isn't a terrible idea.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

1/15NAVAL AIR STATION PATUXENT RIVER - The first Lockheed Martin [NYSE:LMT] F-35B Lightning II stealth fighter passes overhead at 40 knots (46 mph) prior to a slow landing at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md., on Wednesday, March 10. The flight was one of the last missions before the aircraft's first vertical landing, and confirmed the jet's power and controllability at very low speeds. The aircraft's short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) propulsion system generates more than 41,000 pounds of vertical thrust, and enables airspeeds from zero to Mach 1.6. The F-35B will be flown by the United States Marine Corps, the United Kingdom's Royal Air Force and Royal Navy, and the Italian Air Force and Navy. It will be capable of operating from small ships and austere bases near front-line combat zones. F-35 Lead STOVL Pilot Graham Tomlinson was at the controls for Wednesday's flight.
Photo by Randy Hepp

 

[Fog]

Well, FWIW, the Navy just announced today that it's grounding 104 older model F-18 A thru D models because of cracks appearing in the airframe. The article said we have 635 A-D models, but that must include those in the Marine Corps as well. Still, this may be an opening to acquire more Es & Fs. I really think it'll be 2016-17 before the Navy starts getting C model F-35s.

 

[PropAddict]

I got sent this link today. Pretty cool system that I didn't know about, and I was just about to close it out when it showed the dangers of entering a turning fight with "high off-boresight" missiles. Is it just me, or does Northrup make this plane look too much like cheating in BFM? Hell, if it's as easy in this plane as they make it seem, even a prop guy like me could do it.

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/f35targeting/assets/eodasvideo.html

 

[wlawr005]

I got sent this link today. Pretty cool system that I didn't know about, and I was just about to close it out when it showed the dangers of entering a turning fight with "high off-boresight" missiles. Is it just me, or does Northrup make this plane look too much like cheating in BFM? Hell, if it's as easy in this plane as they make it seem, even a prop guy like me could do it.

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solutions/f35targeting/assets/eodasvideo.html

this is what I heard...

DAS sees everything....all the time, virtually eliminating the need for a pilot behind the controls. Who needs a tired, sweaty monkey behind the controls when DAS can immediately reattack any known threat.