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[Uncle Fester]

The last line is the key one.

The DDG requirement is what is killing any chance to do that. Your manned FVL designs don't fit, whether tiltrotor- or blender-based.

That leaves you with other helicopters, none of which represent big improvements (I don't know why people have stuck on S-92...it's not that great), or various H-60 SLEPS. Adding 5-40KIAS and a little more lift isn't exactly game-changing. There's little reason to absorb the EXORBITANT cost of a new design (not just the aircraft--training, spares, manning, basing, etc.) unless there's a huge leap. So if you want a manned platform that's DDG compatible, it's various flavors of H-60 all the way down.

You could commit to a large UAS to replace the R. That's probably the real solution, but a VTOL UAS that large is a good amount of time and money away. Given competing priorities, that's a ways off.

Lastly, you could split the fleet and have a big-deck aircraft and DDG aircraft. If you're on the big deck, a navalized FLRAA (for example) would work great. You could put the "C" back in CSAR and reach a long ways from Mother. It could also hunt small surface threats a lot better than F-18s.

Could the MH-139/AW-139 maybe be a contender? At least it's a DoD POR now.

 

[IKE]

....

I really think Big Navy needs to eat the costs with a new design that can move beyond the S-92. At some point you can't just keep building more Hawks.

Watch us.

 

[Gatordev]

Lastly, you could split the fleet and have a big-deck aircraft and DDG aircraft. If you're on the big deck, a navalized FLRAA (for example) would work great. You could put the "C" back in CSAR and reach a long ways from Mother. It could also hunt small surface threats a lot better than F-18s.

A limitation I see with that plan is when you have independent deployers. I know the bulk of our current strategy centers around the CSG, but there's a lot day-to-day independent steaming to meet the various requirements, too. If you have can't have the "more capable" asset nearby, you may end up with a total capability of something less than we have now.

I fear my wording is poor above, but hopefully it makes sense.

Could the MH-139/AW-139 maybe be a contender? At least it's a DoD POR now.

South Korea tried that. They weren't very happy with the results. Look at what they're buying now.

 

[Llarry]

Could the MH-139/AW-139 maybe be a contender? At least it's a DoD POR now.

Way smaller/less TO weight than a -60.

Bell has a partial answer: V-247 tilt-rotor UAS that they claim will fit Navy hangars. Based on the second photo, I'm skeptical. And re Army observation program, how about repurposed ex-Navy S-3s? <grin>

 

[SynixMan]

Way smaller/less TO weight than a -60.

Bell has a partial answer: V-247 tilt-rotor UAS that they claim will fit Navy hangars. Based on the second photo, I'm skeptical. And re Army observation program, how about repurposed ex-Navy S-3s? <grin>View attachment 39914View attachment 39915

I think people are underestimating the usefulness of manned platforms in ASW in particular. It’s not just a sensor platform. The unmanned sensors will give cueing, but dropping a torpedo is act of war stuff you don’t want to leave to an algorithm.

 

[phrogdriver]

Way smaller/less TO weight than a -60.

Bell has a partial answer: V-247 tilt-rotor UAS that they claim will fit Navy hangars. Based on the second photo, I'm skeptical. And re Army observation program, how about repurposed ex-Navy S-3s? <grin>View attachment 39914View attachment 39915

That mock-up is of the USMC MUX variant. It was later sized down for the USN Maritime Strike.

 

[Gatordev]

I think people are underestimating the usefulness of manned platforms in ASW in particular. It’s not just a sensor platform. The unmanned sensors will give cueing, but dropping a torpedo is act of war stuff you don’t want to leave to an algorithm.

I agree. There's some other elements of ASW that can be more visual, as well. Even as something as simple as losing GPS can lead to a potential mission failure but can be easily dealt with if someone is able to just look out the window. It's a much bigger deal if all you have is a soda straw to look through.

 

[Flash]

I agree. There's some other elements of ASW that can be more visual, as well. Even as something as simple as losing GPS can lead to a potential mission failure but can be easily dealt with if someone is able to just look out the window. It's a much bigger deal if all you have is a soda straw to look through.

A oft-repeated story I heard from older VP and VQ hands the crewmember who often found a sub was the FE, who was just looking out the windows.

 

[HSMPBR]

A oft-repeated story I heard from older VP and VQ hands the crewmember who often found a sub was the FE, who was just looking out the windows.

Looking or licking?

 

[Flash]

Looking or licking?

Knowing FE's, probably both.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I agree. There's some other elements of ASW that can be more visual, as well. Even as something as simple as losing GPS can lead to a potential mission failure but can be easily dealt with if someone is able to just look out the window. It's a much bigger deal if all you have is a soda straw to look through.

I don't know much about ASW, but the sheer lack of SA you have flying around a UAS is hard to grasp until you've had to do it. I could buy UAS as a bouy truck wingman for a -60 or something, maybe, and I think NGC was shopping that idea around for Fire Scout at one point.

 

[Random8145]

I don't know much about ASW, but the sheer lack of SA you have flying around a UAS is hard to grasp until you've had to do it. I could buy UAS as a bouy truck wingman for a -60 or something, maybe, and I think NGC was shopping that idea around for Fire Scout at one point.

Could they put cameras in all directions like these new luxury SUVs have, where you can look left, right, front, rear, etc...?

 

[ChuckMK23]

I don't know much about ASW, but the sheer lack of SA you have flying around a UAS is hard to grasp until you've had to do it. I could buy UAS as a bouy truck wingman for a -60 or something, maybe, and I think NGC was shopping that idea around for Fire Scout at one point.

Not easy.

I am currently in training on the very subject!

 

[Uncle Fester]

Could they put cameras in all directions like these new luxury SUVs have, where you can look left, right, front, rear, etc...?

If you're willing to give up all the bandwidth you need for everything else...sure. Still wouldn't really improve SA all that much.

 

[SteveHolt!!!]

If you're willing to give up all the bandwidth you need for everything else...sure. Still wouldn't really improve SA all that much.

I think sometimes there’s a belief that more sensors + processing/data fusion = more sa. There’s no real reason to believe that equation is really true. Hard to beat a human on station fusing inputs in their brain the old fashioned way and making independent evaluations and decisions.