Lomcevak, Pugachev, Cobra, Hammerheads, Tailslides, etc., all fun airshow stuff, all low q-bar for low wing loads. Low airspeed. Works in the movies for some extra excitement. An X-31 Herbst maneuver would be a closer to what is useful in combat.With reference to overall question, it’s called a Lomcevak maneuver. The Phantom guys I know say it is possible, but they have never seen it done. With reference to the movie it was a Pugachev Cobra like shown here…
Unless you are a fighter pilot you are just arguing semantics…I know two F-4 pilots who say it is perfectly possible they just haven’t done it. clearly he did it and even if it was an unexpected departure from normal flight parameters he recovered expertly and it was a fortunate one.Lomcevak, Pugachev, Cobra, Hammerheads, Tailslides, etc., all fun airshow stuff, all low q-bar for low wing loads. Low airspeed. Works in the movies for some extra excitement. An X-31 Herbst maneuver would be a closer to what is useful in combat.
McKeown's F-4 tumble seems to be at a much higher airspeed, from what can be guessed about it from the combat accounts. It also must have had some yaw so that the wings didn't take the blunt force of the high-alpha directly as it tumbled. Whatever Mugs did, the Navy audio file I mentioned above indicated he was not happy with the move itself, or maybe just it's timing during the dogfight.
G-limiters and alpha-limiters are related, implementing both on some airframes. I saw both limiters in software for other airframes doing flight control systems work. F-117 for sure, and I remember engineers discussing it at McDonnell-Douglas in the early '80's after they broke an F-18 wing in load testing. Maybe F-15 & AV-8B had both too(?).It’s a g-limiter, not an alpha limiter. You can pull unlimited alpha in the F/A-18.
Not just semantics, simple obvious airspeed reality. Some things possible at low speed will overload wings at high speed.Unless you are a fighter pilot you are just arguing semantics…I know two F-4 pilots who say it is perfectly possible they just haven’t done it. clearly he did it and even if it was an unexpected departure from normal flight parameters he recovered expertly and it was a fortunate one.
Guess not. As noted, it was done therefore it “is.”Not just semantics, simple obvious airspeed reality. Some things possible at low speed will overload wings at high speed.
G-limiters and alpha-limiters are related, implementing both on some airframes. I saw both limiters in software for other airframes doing flight control systems work. F-117 for sure, and I remember engineers discussing it at McDonnell-Douglas in the early '80's after they broke an F-18 wing in load testing. Maybe F-15 & AV-8B had both too(?).
Alpha gets multiplied with speed to compare directly against ultimate wing structural load limits, with pitch rate gyros used for anticipation. G-limits back-up wing structural limits, yet mostly deal with pilot g-loc issues, and is what pilots get trained on for simplicity.
G-limiters and alpha-limiters are related, implementing both on some airframes. I saw both limiters in software for other airframes doing flight control systems work. F-117 for sure, and I remember engineers discussing it at McDonnell-Douglas in the early '80's after they broke an F-18 wing in load testing. Maybe F-15 & AV-8B had both too(?).
Alpha gets multiplied with speed to compare directly against ultimate wing structural load limits, with pitch rate gyros used for anticipation. G-limits back-up wing structural limits, yet mostly deal with pilot g-loc issues, and is what pilots get trained on for simplicity.
Thanks, I'll try that. I did notice a new (late 2022 or early this year) Ensch interview on youtube the other day, so he is still doing fine.I am Mug's daughter. He passed away several years ago but you could ask Capt Jack "Finger" Ensch about this. He was in the backseat.
I'll check those books out:I met Mugs.... He never told me he was a mig killer... Talked airplanes at the Palm in Washington DC... His move is factual... I've found it in 2 books... After burner... By Sherwood and scream of eagles ny pedersen.... Both say about this... "I'd push the stick forward... I'd pull the stick back... That would get you through about 1-1.5 negative gs... Then I pull the stick back as hard as I could and reverse the rudder... At that point the airplane would depart..... Did it in nevada.. Lost control and ejected... And did it in Vietnam... Mig Killers of the midway... Air combat