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Little known / experimental aircraft

L

Llarry

Well-Known Member
Griz882 said:
Since we are on “unattractive” twins…here is the Grumman F5F Skyrocket.

View attachment 37893

It was in direct competition with the Wildcat, Corsair, Spitfire, Hurricane, Aerobonita (navy version of Aircobra), and Buffalo. She beat them all but the navy was concerned it would be too hard to maintain parts. Here is a test pilot report from the era…

“I remember testing the XF5F against the XF4U on climb to the 10,000 foot level. I pulled away from the Corsair so fast I thought he was having engine trouble. The F5F was a carrier pilot's dream, as opposite rotating propellers eliminated all torque and you had no large engine up front to look around to see the LSO (landing signal officer) ... The analysis of all the data definitely favored the F5F, and the Spitfire came in a distant second. ... ADM Towers told me that securing spare parts ... and other particulars which compounded the difficulty of building the twin-engine fighter, had ruled out the Skyrocket and that the Bureau had settled on the Wildcat for mass production."
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Not to mention the concern over an engine-out situation. If I remember correctly, the first twin-engine aircraft to land on a U.S. aircraft carrier was the PBJ (B-25) that did trials in WW2. It was really only the North American AJ (due to the extremely high priority of getting nuclear capability to sea with the large bombs of the era) and the Grumman S2F (with its unique two-section rudder) that broke the opposition to twin-piston engine aircraft on carriers.
 

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Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Llarry said:
Not to mention the concern over an engine-out situation. If I remember correctly, the first twin-engine aircraft to land on a U.S. aircraft carrier was the PBJ (B-25) that did trials in WW2. It was really only the North American AJ (due to the extremely high priority of getting nuclear capability to sea with the large bombs of the era) and the Grumman S2F (with its unique two-section rudder) that broke the opposition to twin-piston engine aircraft on carriers.
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You forgot the F7F Tigercat! In this case it was a model that was ahead of its time but just behind the future. One test pilot called it “the best fighter I’ve ever flown.” The Marines used it effectively but it was quickly passed over for jets and angled carrier decks. Interesting side note…in the “pre-woke” era the initial name for the aircraft was the “Tomcat,” but the navy thought the name to be a bit sexually suggestive so it was changed…but the F-14 used the name without much complaint.
 
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Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
number9 said:
What was the rationale of putting 'F' in the type twice?
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Gatordev said:
The second "F" signifies it's a Grumman aircraft.

"U" signified Vought in the F4U. There's others, but those are the two off the top of my head.
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number9 said:
Today I learned. Thank you!
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The Navy (and Marines, and CG) used a different system from the Army and USAF until 1962. First letter (or two, eg, PB for Patrol Bomber) indicated basic mission type. Second letter indicated the manufacturer. The number in the middle was a sequential number for aircraft of that type from that manufacturer, so the F7F was the seventh fighter model built by Grumman.

It could get unwieldy, especially during the war when different manufacturers built the same design under license to increase production. So the F4U and F4F were totally different aircraft, but the F4U, FG, and F3A were all Corsairs, built by Vought, Goodyear, and Brewster, respectively. The AU was also a Corsair, a ground-attack variant built for the Marines.
 
hlg6016

hlg6016

A/C Wings Here
Popular story that was told was that SecDef McNamara gave testimony to Congress concerning the C130 for the Air Force, Later in the day he had to field questions about Navair's GV1. SecDef was less than pleased about it and ordered a Dept. wide policy.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
hlg6016 said:
Popular story that was told was that SecDef McNamara gave testimony to Congress concerning the C130 for the Air Force, Later in the day he had to field questions about Navair's GV1. SecDef was less than pleased about it and ordered a Dept. wide policy.
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Version I heard was it was the Navy's F4H and Air Force's F-110A. But yeah, same idea.

Robert the Strange made a lot of shit decisions, but that one was probably for the better.
 
Randy Daytona

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
hlg6016 said:

McDonnell F-110A Spectre | This Day in Aviation

www.thisdayinaviation.com
Could be. I was just a twinkle in mom and dad's eyes when this went down. Looking at the Buno's in the start of this article makes me feel old. Most of my airframes were in the 148 to 150 series including 2 in the 147s in the 80's.
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Good article but I question one of the numbers?

Future astronaut Commander John W. Young, United States Navy, flew another Phantom II, Bu. No. 149449, from the runway at NAS Point Mugu on the southern California coast to an altitude of 30,000 meters (82,020.997 feet) in 3 minutes, 50.440 seconds.

I don’t think that conversion from meters to feet was done correctly.
 
hlg6016

hlg6016

A/C Wings Here
My conversion app puts 30k meters at 92,425 feet. A slick F4 could climb like a scalded monkey with those burners.
 
L

Llarry

Well-Known Member
Somebody needs to list more of the manufacturer letters:
B = Boeing
C = Curtiss
D = Douglas
G = Goodyear
H = McDonnell
J = North American
K = Kaman
L = Bell
M = Martin (as well as GM; there were duplicates)
N = Naval Aircraft Factory
P = Piasecki
R = Ryan
S = Stearman, Sikorsky
T = Northrop
U = Vought
Y = Consolidated/Convair
 
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Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
VMO4 said:
So, E was Piper, thus the NE-1 (J3) ?, and the twin beech, SNB, ?
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You are confusing “purchasing and supply” nomenclature with duty nomenclature. In this case…
S = Scout
N = Trainer
B = Bomber
 
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