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Europe under extreme duress

Randy Daytona

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Griz882 said:
Back to the modern…I read today that some economic analysts predict it is possible that inflation in Russia will reach 30-35% by the end of the year. While Putin might be able to brush off 10,000 dead soldiers I doubt he can withstand that blow for long. @Max the Mad Russian when are the next elections…or is Putin basically president for life. The geopolitical world is changing because of this and so is the global economy.

I imagine NATO will come out looking good and the US will break their Middle East addiction as well (and we all thought China would do that!). Of course there will be a Russia, but how far do some of you imagine the world will go to Punish them after the dust settles?
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I will take the opposite opinion. I have said before that Ataturk was a century long aberration and Turkey will revert to being the Ottoman Empire.

Will this NATO togetherness last? Despite recent events, there would be concerns that in a conflict with China, so much of Europe’s exports go to Asia that sanctions on China would devastate Europe’s economies.

As for the rest of the world punishing Putin, again, not so much. Russia is the source of too much raw materials (oil, gas, coal, metals), fertilizers, food, etc. The Western aligned countries, for now, but I have doubts about China, India and many non-aligned countries.
 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Random8145 said:
I am hoping it is done smartly by the West as we don't want Russia to become another version of post-WWI Germany.
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I imagine NATO wants to avoid that as well…but what of his nukes? Also, with reference to this morning news that Putin wants a face-to-face with Zelensky….I wouldn’t go within 10 miles of that. You know Putin has a hit squad ready with a deadly umbrella.
 
Max the Mad Russian

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Randy Daytona said:
Will this NATO togetherness last? Despite recent events, I doubt it, especially if there is a conflict with China.
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WWI ruined four empires (Rus, Austrian, German, Turks) WWII just two (UK and JP), WWIII... Well, there's no empires anymore. Reverted process? Will this World War restore empires, since you think Ottomans want that?
Or, if all the others HAD empires but Russia WAS an empire and still probably is, is it time for her to die? I'd prefer this choice.
 
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R

Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
Max the Mad Russian said:
WWI ruined four empires (Rus, Austrian, German, Turks) WWII just two (UK and JP), WWIII... Well, there's no empires anymore. Reverted process? Will this World War restore empires, since you think Ottomans want that?
Or, if all the others HAD empires but Russia WAS an empire and still probably is, is it time for her to die? I'd prefer this choice.
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I'd say the United States is an empire. A different kind of empire, but still an empire.
 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Randy Daytona said:
I will take the opposite opinion. I have said before that Ataturk was a century long aberration and Turkey will revert to being the Ottoman Empire.

Will this NATO togetherness last? Despite recent events, there would be concerns that in a conflict with China, so much of Europe’s exports go to Asia that sanctions on China would devastate Europe’s economies.

As for the rest of the world punishing Putin, again, not so much. Russia is the source of too much raw materials (oil, gas, coal, metals), fertilizers, food, etc. The Western aligned countries, for now, but I have doubts about China, India and many non-aligned countries.
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An interesting perspective. Turkey may take on the mantle of “empire,” but it will just be Turkey. That Middle Eastern genie isn’t getting shoved back into that bottle.

I have to agree that the real test for NATO comes after the peace. They have no real dog in a China fight, but France and the UK are pushing back against the way China is working to alter markets to the yuan. In the end, that isn’t enough to prompt a war.

The only question I have about Russia is their nuclear capacity. Now, if the war ends soon (and today’s news promises some possibilities) then I think we’ll see status quo ante-bellum with no changes. I am not as impressed with Russia’s natural resources as others. They are not globe changing - indeed North America could out produce/extract the Russians with the exception that the west wants the stuff….but not the mess. We are horribly guilty of being locally “environmentalist” but globally greedy.

India is the most fascinating case. They aren’t exactly pro-Russian, but the Russians will sell them stuff to slap around Pakistan. India is the next big replacement for China once the new Chinese middle class establishes their internal hegemony - and India is not going to ally itself with China against the U.S. simply because the real money is in democracy - so I admire their middle-of-the-road approach. On the other hand, I think where the Pacific will next pivot to South Korea and Japan who can stand up to Chinese aggression with U.S. support.
 
Max the Mad Russian

Max the Mad Russian

Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Random8145 said:
say the United States is an empire. A different kind of empire, but still an empire.
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From the standpoint of Rÿche song, yes. But politically - not yet: no overseas possessions controlled by force, while their natives mostly denied access to metropole. And don't let US of A become an empire, please. This is the dead end for any nation.
The only people who may argue are native Americans, though. But it still is not enough to be called empire.
 
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Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Max the Mad Russian said:
From the standpoint of Rÿche song, yes. But politically - not yet: no overseas possessions controlled by force, while their natives mostly denied access to metropole. And don't let US of A become an empire, please. It's dead end for any nation.
The only people who may argue are native Americans, though. But it still is not enough to be called empire.
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At best we toyed with it back in the Gilded Age, for the most part we (as American’s) are too lazy to take something when we can just buy it. Today we practice a form of “firmish soft power” but only because we are willing to play global cop.
 
R

Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
Max the Mad Russian said:
From the standpoint of Rÿche song, yes. But politically - not yet: no overseas possessions controlled by force, while their natives mostly denied access to metropole. And don't let US of A become an empire, please. This is the dead end for any nation.
The only people who may argue are native Americans, though. But it still is not enough to be called empire.
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By "Rÿche song," you mean a music group? (that is what I get by Googling). I agree we are not a colonial empire, but I'd say we are still a form of empire, in that we have a super powerful military and have bases for it all over the planet, we are the main military force for upholding the free world, we have a navy that sails all over the planet and which plays a major role in keeping the sea lanes open to ensure global trade, we are highly influential economically and financially (we are the global reserve currency and have the biggest economy), we are highly influential in terms of natural resources, etc...I think it is debatable regarding whether becoming a colonial empire is a dead-end, I think it depends. However from a moral perspective, I agree that we don't want America becoming that form of empire. We'd no longer be America then.
 
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