Absolutely shouldn’t be the message. Only thing they know that isn’t absolutely unsubstantiated rumor is the underlined part. This is the first time I’ve heard it described like that, and shocked that someone would jump to that level. My guess is that @Spekkio ‘s point on the NDAA will come to fruition.
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Navy Reserve COVID Vaccinations by October
- Thread starter snake020
- Start date
Yeah, but there's also plenty of data from similar vaccines that it can be compared to. This really isn't that different other than the speed. But there's an argument to be made that the standing process was so risk averse that it was artificially slow.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
You're asking someone who's already skeptical to do the legwork and compare it to other similar vaccines. That's not how it works.
Some people have lost faith in the CDC, driven by them and Dr Fauci saying a bunch of wrong stuff. Yet if you go to the CDC website they basically say 'it's safe because we say so. Trust us.' This is the same organization still telling people to wear masks no matter the filtration efficacy or vaccination status because 'it works because we say so. Trust us.'
I agree that the CDC sucks at providing material that can be interpreted by the lay person. And that the average lay person has struggled with a changing and developing scenario with very stilted language.
But I'm hoping that people who have concerns look to trusted professional medical sources such as their general practitioner or similar and discuss with them and to help them interpret the data. Service members have ready access to Docs. At my workplace the local Docs have been heavily involved in addressing concerns from the workforce and being that interpreter between the CDC and the layperson.
The fact that these vaxes are seen as safe and effective by innumerable independent medical and public health authorities the world over should also provide some perspective. Even in places with anti-vax mandates people are still saying the vax is safe and effective and encouraged (but not required!).
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
While I agree in principle, the hoops my wife has to jump through to get my kids to the doctor since COVID-19 started is ridiculous. He won't even see sick patients - straight to the ER you go. It's a running joke that doctors en masse just stopped treating patients as a result of a pandemic.
Aside from that, seeing a doctor costs money.
Almost no one is cold calling the family Dr to get his take on the vaccine.
it should if they had actual numbers to back their claims.
Now that I know such guidance didn't come down to them from above, my guess is they are spreading this BS to try to get their own unit's vax numbers up so that they look good.
As my previous post and Spekkio pointed out, there's still so much data that hasn't even been collected (or can't have been collected, such as long-term safety metrics), that nobody even has the capability of quantifying how safe it is. Different than any other vaccine any of us has ever taken, this one was created in record time, given a EUA in record time, and fully approved in record time, all with a highly political backdrop (both here and abroad) where scientists/public health officials who are beholden to politicians for money and authority/prestige were no doubt pressured by everyone from government officials to private industry to approve the thing without delay. Meanwhile those same officials are routinely lying to people about other issues involving COVID. Hardly surprising some people are scared to take it, unless you want to bury your head in the sand and say "It's just like every other vaccine, and any other lawful order! Take it or F you, your family, and your future, because if you don't then you have a <0.01% chance of being killed by the virus (if you contract it) and a slightly higher chance of spreading it to other people!" We may not yet be able to quantify every important safety metric of the vax, but we can quantify something like the mortality rate of COVID.. go to https://covid19risktools.com:8443/riskcalculator and see where the military population sits. Compare that to other things we're vaccinated against, such as Polio (15-30%), Smallpox (30%), Tetanus (30%), Anthrax (20-80% depending on the type), etc.
But all that is irrelevant, ultimately. You are entitled to your risk/reward decision, as should everyone else. Live and let live.
The J&J isn't MRNA. It is an actual virus, like a lot of vaccines, which frankly is more creepy than getting MRNA.
It's a shame the Novavax isn't out yet. Neither MRNA nor an actual virus, but as good as the MRNA.
Don't they? Compared to Covid itself?
I don't know where you live and I'm sorry to hear family health care has been so difficult. Hasn't been the case for us here so can't speak to why that is the case where you are.
I've had all of my family's care providers reach out and encourage vaccination and to say they're available to answer questions. I get numerous emails from the VA offering the same. The docs at my work have offered to address concerns. I know my experience isn't the same for everyone and not everyone has a workplace with Flight Docs available.
But plenty of docs have also offered telemedicine. Or there's the local health department.
There's no reason people can't cold call their Doc or other resources.
As for your data question...you're asking for "data" and not saying exactly what you're looking for and what would address your concerns. Obviously all of the people concerned with making these sort of decisions got the data they needed to make their decision. Lack of data doesn't equal a problem, it just means that it wasn't required to make the decision. And just because the data, process, and conclusions needed to make advanced scientific decisions isn't readily apparent doesn't mean it's not available. It probably just means you need an MD/PhD and 20+yrs of experience in virology and or epidemiology to understand it.
Again, totally agree that the CDC and scientific community needs to find a way to make this information more approachable and digestible at the 8th grade reading level to help engender public trust and understanding. There's far more to that than posting xls files on CDC.gov.
You are assuming that religious = nonviolent, which is biased against religions that don’t require nonviolence.
I disagree as to the motivations of the people who made this vaccine and who ultimately approved it. These are professionals who care about what they do and understand they need to get it right per the science because otherwise there's nothing to fall back on.
Also, the truly CRAZY thing about these vaccines is that they were essentially made in a few weeks after the discovery of COVID. Then it took a year to run trials to ensure it was safe. If people were really interested in going nuts they could have had shots ready much quicker. But they didn't because they followed the clinical trial process.
Let's not lump those who have had the shot and who advocate for it as "following sie orders." Is it perhaps possible that people have come to a different conclusion and maybe those advocating for it do so because they trust it and want to find a way to provide a safe work and living space for those around them?
Finally, the thing about public health is it doesn't really work like an individual risk decision like wearing a seatbelt that only could harm that individual. I truly think this a situation of doing things for your community, a selfless act of public service.
Do you apply that standard to taking an aircraft into combat against China, where there's a good chance you and your crew doesn't survive?
Oh Jesus. Talk about comparing apples to oranges. Cowardice in the face of doing your job you signed up to do is quite different than this.
The rebuttal is going to be: “Orders are orders. Follow all or follow none (and GTFO), Shipmate.”
From my perspective, what I find interesting is that the career/lifer types are consistently on one side of the spectrum on this topic. Nothing wrong with that as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I can’t help but wonder if this lack of empathy correlates to other areas, and the (apparent) current mass exodus of JOs.
Edit: did I call it or what ?
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So, you get to choose which orders you think are worthy of following. You'll follow the apple, but not the orange because, well, you have your reasons. Quite a can of worms you've opened for yourself.
It's quite simple. Everyone gets to choose what orders they follow, but you only get to say no once. The question is what are the consequences? For cowardice I'd advocate a harsh penalty. For this vax order, compassion, understanding, and an honorable discharge. No can of worms.