I always assumed that the reason the corps hasn't made the conversion is for cost reasons, but because of the z-model, I got to wondering. Is there something about the airframes and their inherent qualities that make the older (but certainly not weaker) cobra more suitable for the corps? Don't get me wrong, I know they are both capable aircraft and I prefer the ah-1, but its always been a point of curiosity for me.
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Why Cobras and not Apaches?
- Thread starter eddie
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Bevo said:
You sure about that? I'm pretty sure I have seen an apache with folded up rotors coming of an Air Force transport.
46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
Rigid is a type of rotor system (state of the art), along with fully articulated (most current helicopters such as the 53, 46, 47, 60, etc) and semi-rigid (2 bladed - think Huey or JetRanger). The Apache as configured does not have a bladefold mechanism but it is not that difficult to add. The Army and the Navy both fly the H-60: the Navy has bladefold and the Army does not (unless things have changed.) If the Apache was in a USAF transport, chances are its blades were removed.
Ok yes there is a Bell Mafia or wellfare whatever you want to call it and yes a lot of former Coloners and Generals now work for them (great 60 minutes investigation) and yes that is the reason we have among other things the osprey and yankee model huey vice buying the 60 and replacing them both.
The apache however is a great platform for fighting off the great comunist hoard at the the Fulda Gap but really hasnt evolved beyond that whereas the Cobra for all it faults started life as a counter-insurgency platform and grew into having an anti-armor capability (kinda what we are doing now). It is small good for both survivability and shipboard use. It is realatively simple-easy to maintain and surprisingly survivable-see some pictures from the most recent adventure. Basically almost anything the Apache can do a Cobra can do (it might take more pilot workload) at almost half the cost. I had a chance to talk to and train with some Apache guys and it is a surprisingly unmanueverable helicopter and all its systems are limited to weapon employment from a hover (not real survivable). The Zulu will adress the only real shortcomings we have (old FLIR and no negative G's as well as help with ergonomics and cockpit layout)
The apache however is a great platform for fighting off the great comunist hoard at the the Fulda Gap but really hasnt evolved beyond that whereas the Cobra for all it faults started life as a counter-insurgency platform and grew into having an anti-armor capability (kinda what we are doing now). It is small good for both survivability and shipboard use. It is realatively simple-easy to maintain and surprisingly survivable-see some pictures from the most recent adventure. Basically almost anything the Apache can do a Cobra can do (it might take more pilot workload) at almost half the cost. I had a chance to talk to and train with some Apache guys and it is a surprisingly unmanueverable helicopter and all its systems are limited to weapon employment from a hover (not real survivable). The Zulu will adress the only real shortcomings we have (old FLIR and no negative G's as well as help with ergonomics and cockpit layout)
I think that the Bell Mafia influence is way overstated. It's one of those "post-hoc ergo prompter hoc" situations. Are Bell helicopters used in the Marine Corps because Marines are on their boards or are Marines on the boards because the Corps uses Bell helos?
The V-22 could be argued back and forth all year, so I don't want to beat that any more than it has been already. Suffice it to say, I'll be starting in the sims for it next week, so I'm biased. The Huey beating the 60 is a function of commonality first of all--the UH-1Y will use most of the same parts as the AH1Z. Also, the Marine Corps doesn't see the "bulk discount" savings for adding its requirements to the overall DOD purchase of 60s. So, even if the 60 is cheaper for DOD, a rebuild of the Huey still comes out cheaper for the Corps. Since we're in for the Huey, the parts commonality works for using the Cobra, too.
I'll second the critique of the Apache as being built for the defense of Western Europe. It has an unmatched ability to deliver anti-armor ordinance. It is not well suited against troops. Its ability to deliver running fire is poor, and the reliance on just a FLIR vice goggles for night vision means the aquisition of small targets, e.g. people while on the move is bad, since the FLIR slew rate is very slow. Its avi package and datalink ability is impressive, though, and is probably the only thing we should envy in it.
The V-22 could be argued back and forth all year, so I don't want to beat that any more than it has been already. Suffice it to say, I'll be starting in the sims for it next week, so I'm biased. The Huey beating the 60 is a function of commonality first of all--the UH-1Y will use most of the same parts as the AH1Z. Also, the Marine Corps doesn't see the "bulk discount" savings for adding its requirements to the overall DOD purchase of 60s. So, even if the 60 is cheaper for DOD, a rebuild of the Huey still comes out cheaper for the Corps. Since we're in for the Huey, the parts commonality works for using the Cobra, too.
I'll second the critique of the Apache as being built for the defense of Western Europe. It has an unmatched ability to deliver anti-armor ordinance. It is not well suited against troops. Its ability to deliver running fire is poor, and the reliance on just a FLIR vice goggles for night vision means the aquisition of small targets, e.g. people while on the move is bad, since the FLIR slew rate is very slow. Its avi package and datalink ability is impressive, though, and is probably the only thing we should envy in it.
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