What ruins the Kool-aid...

[scoober78]

First of all...I'd like to introduce myself. Been in the Navy bout 8 years. Prior E nuc RO (reactor operator) on submarines. Been browsing the site every so often and can't stay out of the mix anymore. Currently VT-28 just getting rolling with primary.

So...all that said...here comes my first thread.

You all know the question on everyones mind who's in my place. After studying, its all we think about. I'm having a hard time thinking about selection though not because I want to know "what % get jets" or the like but because I see real positives to every community...yes even the lonely red headed E-2.... Couple guys at the -28 suggested that I think of it not in terms of positives but in terms of things you wouldn't like... Yeah I know...here is the question.

What things have you guys found that have been a real pain in the arse in your communities, or what negatives pushed you away from one community or another? Don't intend this to be a gripe-fest, but I think its a neat way to think about selection.

I've got my OBA...let the flaming begin...

 

[MasterBates]

HSL East Here.

Short Term- When you wing, you are not in charge of you own aircraft, you are a co-pilot. Not a big thing, but the single piloted pipeline guys do sign for the aircraft, and are in charge. Helos/Props/E2C2, you work thru the PQM, H2P (or 2P for FW) and HAC syllabi before you are allowed to even think of signing for the aircraft. I used to be a single-pilot comm helo guy, so that was a kick in the junk.

Mid term, HSL-Specific. Being on a small boy is the best and worst thing. You MAY get better port visits, but you HAVE to deal with the shoes, and they outnumber and outrank you. VP-VQ , what is a boat? CV based stuff, you deal mainly with other aviation types.

HSL- Det concept. You have a lot of "options" for cruising. Depending on how the timing gods like you, this can really help, or hurt. And it is mostly beyond your control. Also, you do a lot of "quick turns". Deployment schedule is very unstable, on a personal level. The actual cruises stay stable, but personnel gets jumped from pilot to pilot.

HSL-Personnel. There are 40ish JOs, 10-12 LCDRs, and 2-3 CDRs in a squadron. Plus a half dozen LDO/CWOs. And you can be in the same squadron as someone, and NEVER see them over a 2-3 year span. Big wardroom, but less cohesive than smaller squadrons. Hard to get a 1-2 EP when you leave, due to large numbers. Your last competitive FITREP is also 8-12 other guys last FITREP.

Promotion- Good and Bad. We have a 85%ish DH screen, sometimes better, due to 10-12 DHs in the squadron. If you stay in, and have not fooked somthing up, you will probably make O4. Making CDR is reasonable, but CO is a *******. 40 JOs necking down to 2 CDRs makes the numbers less in your favor.

Long term- HSL. To go beyond CDR, you have to be a CO (some exceptions), and HSL admirals are few and far between.

 

[Gatordev]

You MAY get better port visits, but you HAVE to deal with the shoes, and they outnumber and outrank you.

For some perhaps. My first day aboard on workups: O-3. We had 3 O-3s and an O-4 for the officers.

A good summary, and mostly similar to the West side of HSL. One nitpick...if you have a bigger wardroom/ready room, that doesn't mean it's harder to get an EP, because the CO is allowed more EPs. It's still the same percentage, more or less. For my last squadron, there were 3 EPs for about 15-20 LTs (can't remember exactly).

 

[MasterBates]

Gator, I meant a #1/#2 EP. We normally get 6-7 per cycle.

 

[scoober78]

Thanks for the info...thats definitely the kinda thing I've been looking for. It would seem to me that being in a pipeline that often had a det going here, one going there...could be good from a fitrep point of view no? Taking a 60 to a small boy and operating independently etc... True?

Hey you other community guys....

 

[MasterBates]

Not really, since all the guys you get rated against are in a Det and doing the same thing. You have to get pretty high (O5/O6 level) before you are competing against people outside your community.

LAMPS (HSL) is not bad. It is nice to have all sorts of tactical doodads. It does suck to spend so much time and brainpower to aforementioned tactical doodads that you will not be allowed to use by te SWOs.

If I could go back, I would like to go to a community that does its mission, versus one that does not. HSC for me, if I could go back. I would train them out of the SideFlare (C'mon Chunks, I'm egging you on to give the HSC take on this)

 

[ChunksJR]

If I could go back, I would like to go to a community that does its mission, versus one that does not. HSC for me, if I could go back. I would train them out of the SideFlare (C'mon Chunks, I'm egging you on to give the HSC take on this)

The only first choice I've ever gotten in my career, all 5 yrs of it, has been aviation. Got Helos (3rd choice, not because I didn't want to fly helos, but struggled enuf in fixed wing to want my wings fixed coming out of VTs), Got HSC Norfolk (Not Guam, like I would have liked), Got HTs (not FRS, as I thought I would have liked).

I wouldn't change a damn thing though. Alright with that being said, I hate the politix. It's always there, and I didn't play it...You know what I'm talking about if you are a prior nuke. In order to progress past O4, you have to know the game and play it as well as you can. You have to drink the KoolAide that the detailer and your commanding officer have out for you.

As for other things that possibly suck in aviation: You'll possibly fly the D for a Gator. I didn't, but many of my peers did. You may find yourself on a carrier. The carrier sux in my opinion. You're a helo bubba in a jet world. If you are not a regular aboard the carrier, they find places to stick you. That means in a hallway if the CAG is on board. No helos, no heroes...not quite. You do work ups for months before deploying for more months. This is not very condusive to family rearing. I didn't spend but about 3 weeks total on two different carriers. The food was good, the people were alright, but the working conditions sucked compared to the USNS vessel I cruised on. Shore-basing in Bahrain was great for my bank account, but the flying sucked (5 hrs round-trip over nothing but water 3 times a week.).

The greatest tour I've had/will ever have is happening right now. Being an instructor in an Orange and white is a blast. I sign for the bird, I teach kids, and watch them become little mes...it's awesome.

It's been worth every step of the way...and if I don't ever get my first choice in anything again, it will all have been worth it.

In a nutshell...do what you think you'll enjoy doing for a few years...you possibly won't get to do it anyway...but either way, enjoy every day...it's better than being on a USS anything.

~D

 

[gregsivers]

The greatest tour I've had/will ever have is happening right now. Being an instructor in an Orange and white is a blast. I sign for the bird, I teach kids, and watch them become little mes...it's awesome.

You sound just like my onwing there, he was so proud when I said I wanted to do HSL .

 

[scoober78]

As for other things that possibly suck in aviation: You'll possibly fly the D for a Gator.

This is just my aviation ignorance showing perhaps...but why does this suck? I would think that would be a better deal than doing VERTREP etc...no?

 

[Brett327]

This is just my aviation ignorance showing perhaps...but why does this suck? I would think that would be a better deal than doing VERTREP etc...no?

Starboard Dee, Wheeee!

Brett

 

[scoober78]

Ok... Just figured out what the D meant...

Cancel the previous question. Honestly, I was thinking he was talking about the -46D...what can I say?

 

[Pags]

This is just my aviation ignorance showing perhaps...but why does this suck? I would think that would be a better deal than doing VERTREP etc...no?

If you do some digging, there's an old post where a younger, more ignorant me asked the same question you are right now. I think it might be somewhere under the greatest hits...titled something like "what to fly when i grow up?" In this post, I talk about not wanting to sling pallets of soda from boat to boat. Seems pretty funny now, considering where I'm at now. But, in the year and change since I wrote that post, a lot of things have changed in my perspective. I went into the HTs thinking I wanted to be HS...and finished with HSC as my top 3 choices. Now, I've only flown vertrep training flights so far, but they're awesome flights. Some of the greatest flying I've done so far. I won't tell tales out of school, but I'm sure Chunks can tell you how much he enjoys VERTREP.

 

[Gatordev]

...but I'm sure Chunks can tell you how much he enjoys VERTREP.

Endlessly.

 

[ChunksJR]

Endlessly.

Nah, I've got you guys to tell it for me

~D

 

[hscs]

Scoober,

For the helo stuff -- I have made my way through 3 different types of squadrons.

Everyone slams HS as spending all of the time in starboard D. In fact, you never really fly the starboard D pattern (unless it is an FRS CQ det). You spend most of your time handling other tasking such as SSC, while being an on call SAR asset. HS has the most diverse mission set of any of the communities -- which requires more book time. The payback is that you have a better chance of getting in the fight. Most properly qualified first tour guys are now getting green ink if their boat makes it to the Gulf. Don't think that just because you aren't a pointy nose guy that you in a completely different caste on the carrier. I never had that feeling aboard the carrier -- we were held to the same standard and expected to execute our missions like the rest of the airwing. The smaller wardroom (12 JOs, 2 LDOs, 5 DHs, CO/XO) and the fact that you deploy together can make for some great times, and some great family squabbles that you will laugh about later.

As for HSC, their mission sets will be growing -- but only as fast as they can produce the configured airframes and execute the helo conops. You will have the det concept where you may get stuck doing something you don't like on your time at sea (if you don't like gator SAR or VERTREP). Although going out on det with a smaller group, can be a lot easier than taking the whole squadron.

In either case -- I don't think that there are politics where you have to change who you are or your beliefs to get ahead. If you do your job to your utmost, watch out for the little stuff, and are a professional in the air, you won't need to worry about it. Do what you think will be the most fun.