What is flex drill?

[Gatordev]

Can you please explain this to me like I'm a brand new butterbar (which I am)? In the words of the guy from Margin Call, speak to me as you would a young child - or a golden retriever. What work can qualify as an additional drill, and how much does there need to be to do so?

An additional drill is a drill (not active duty orders) that is beyond your entitlement (which is 48 IDTs/year). There are several flavors, depending on what you do. ATPs are for non-fliers, AFTPs are for fliers and must be used for either a flight or sim event (and some additional wiggle room depending on the FY instruction), and RMPs are admin drills that can be done from home or at your Reserve work. RMPs are limited to 12 per year (?...it's been a while, is that still correct?). AFTPs are limited to 72. I can't remember what ATPs are limited to (36?).

IDTT, as @MIDNJAC mentioned, is a set of orders, but not active duty orders, where you can use IDTs or AFTP/ATP drills away from your home unit. Basically it's funding that pays for the travel/lodging/per diem while you're executing drills. It's a sweet deal, but not always available due to funding limitations.

 

[wink]

I seem to recall that for aviators simply going wheels up qualified for a drill. If you broke and came back theoretically you could pack it in and score a drill. Don't recall anyone testing it. Change to play clothes, brief, preflight, taxi and launch is rarely less than 3 hours anyway. Then you probably try and fix it and relaunch. But sea lawyers.

 

[Hair Warrior]

RESPERMAN says 2 hours for non-pay IDT, except if you have two IDT periods that day. Pretty much any “Navy work” qualifies. If you want to do telework, make sure your NOSC has a blanket telework waiver and/or signed telework agreement on file for you.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I seem to recall that for aviators simply going wheels up qualified for a drill. If you broke and came back theoretically you could pack it in and score a drill. Don't recall anyone testing it. Change to play clothes, brief, preflight, taxi and launch is rarely less than 3 hours anyway. Then you probably try and fix it and relaunch. But sea lawyers.

Nowadays, and I'm sure this is open for interpretation at various units, I think getting mustered for the drill typically happens as long as you are scheduled for flight/sim (or otherwise make arrangements to do either) and show up. IMO a better policy, as it doesn't encourage folks to go fly when they shouldn't be/the aircraft shouldn't be/the weather shouldn't be flown in.

 

[Gatordev]

Nowadays, and I'm sure this is open for interpretation at various units, I think getting mustered for the drill typically happens as long as you are scheduled for flight/sim (or otherwise make arrangements to do either) and show up. IMO a better policy, as it doesn't encourage folks to go fly when they shouldn't be/the aircraft shouldn't be/the weather shouldn't be flown in.

They changed it some time around/after 2014. Briefing and no flight would get you one AFTP, logging a NAVFLIR got you two. I agree, the change was for the better. It was common to see SELRES go take a FAM 7 flying at the VTs with no possible way to complete.

"But I'll be the weather bird!"

Right.

 

[Flash]

You guys all have valid practical points, but it is still ridiculous and unsat IMO. I get it for a senior O-5 about to retire who is more concerned with points than they are with being paid (they're losing money either way by "coming to work" most likely), but that is more of a "by choice" situation. For JO's, possibly reserve babies, that's insane. They are probably flexing their real jobs, losing money, and also getting behind at those same real jobs, just so that they can get credited with a couple points, and they're gonna have to balance those two lives for years if not decades. The SELRES + normal desk job life sucks hard, even if just pretty minimal on the USNR side. I've lived it, can't imagine also not getting paid for it.

To be clear, unpaid drills are were not a common way to build up points in the units I was in or for the reservists I knew. It was done as an 'extra' by more senior folks or often at the suggestion of them, "You dropped your stuff by medical last Tuesday? Log it as an unpaid!". It was rare that folks really focus on them much at all, like I said I logged less than a dozen in my 15 years in the reserves and it was a similar story for most of my peers.

I learned there are two main types of folks who retire from the reserves, those that get to retirement and GTFO (by no means a criticism, they earned their retirement!) and those that stay 'til the Navy has to kick them out. So most aviators will only have to do a decade in the reserves, which goes a lot faster than the first one, while those that stick around for another decade are the ones that still find it worth it for one reason or another.

Many of the aviators I knew who stuck around until they were kicked out were airline guys who had been badly scarred by the post-9/11 upheaval in the industry, often furloughed for 5 or more years with big paycuts when they were recalled and losing the bulk of their pensions all at the same time. My units relied heavily on those guys to fill in the gaps while being perennially undermanned, with those guys largely retired/retiring now I often wonder if the Navy Reserve will have even more trouble filling billets in the near future.

 

[Hair Warrior]

To add to the above; Every reserve sailor should use a nonpaid IDT whenever they know they are getting into a car or doing any physical work for the Navy. If you are driving to the NOSC next week, put in a nonpay. If you are doing a shooting qual or swim qual, put in a nonpay. Leaders should push this culture to their sailors. The last thing you want is your sailor getting in a bad car wreck while driving to base to do some mundane, quick task, and they’re not covered by some form of Navy duty status.

 

[MIDNJAC]

To add to the above; Every reserve sailor should use a nonpaid IDT whenever they know they are getting into a car or doing any physical work for the Navy. If you are driving to the NOSC next week, put in a nonpay. If you are doing a shooting qual or swim qual, put in a nonpay. Leaders should push this culture to their sailors. The last thing you want is your sailor getting in a bad car wreck while driving to base to do some mundane, quick task, and they’re not covered by some form of Navy duty status.

For sure, although I'd argue it should be "with pay" selected in NSIPS. I know this probably isn't a fiscal reality at the NOSC perhaps, but 1) you absolutely need to be on an official status like you say, and 2) you should be getting paid, period.

Good points @Flash, and if a guy just wants their points and doesn't care about the money, absolutely. But that should be a good deal they are offering to their command's budget, not an expectation IMHO.

As for retirement, totally agree. More power to the guys who stick around >20. They can add a lot to the organization, and honestly, I think we are a little too quick in some cases to try and show them the door, with the overgrade waiver policy, and just general misunderstanding of the intent of that. When you rack and stack who you gain vs who you actually retain, when it comes to the JO/junior most qualified, there is frequently a deficit. Cutting OG waivers before all your new horses are settled in the stable is poor business, again IMHO, when some of those OG's are still doing great work. You just end up undermanned (which isn't always bad depending on the financial climate) when all the new gains never show or quit after 6 mo-1 yr. No hate on them either, but I've seen some knee jerk reactions in this realm that don't totally make sense.

 

[nittany03]

My units relied heavily on those guys to fill in the gaps while being perennially undermanned, with those guys largely retired/retiring now I often wonder if the Navy Reserve will have even more trouble filling billets in the near future.

Well then maybe people will actually put thoughts toward what makes people want to stay. With recruiting the way it is, the military as a whole arguably has to do this now. Root causes for that are different and probably a topic for the War Zone.

But on the reserve side, it’s always boggled my mind how the NRCs get away with seemingly treating SELRES of all ranks like a bunch of damn active duty E-5s. And then on top of it, fostering way too many no-load TARs and civilians who suck at their jobs. That’s definitely not every NRC Sailor or civilian, but there are still too many. My CO is perpetually on my NRC’s GTCC hit list after submitting his training paperwork over five damn times. In a previous unit, another officer had orders kicked back multiple times for no street address on a duty location . . . which was in the field in the middle of fucking Shoalwater Bay, Australia. I could go on.

The work I do at my gaining command is rewarding, and part of me wants to stick around awhile in case Winnie the Pooh gets frisky. But dealing with the NRCs? FUCK that noise. It’s the damn DMV with uniforms. If I stay past 20, my gaining command work will keep me around. If I bail, it’ll be because 10 years of guilty-until-proven-innocent Mickey Mouse NRC bullshit just got to be too much.

 

[snake020]

But on the reserve side, it’s always boggled my mind how the NRCs get away with seemingly treating SELRES of all ranks like a bunch of damn active duty E-5s.

Because they can. Too many NRC COs and XOs are on the ROAD program and it's accepted.

Despite the compelling issues to solve ranging from late travel pay to waiting three months to get paid when mobilized and having coverage gaps in the TRICARE transitions, the priorities of the current reserve chief were to nostalgically rename the FTS component and NOSCs and reorg the force as if everyone was active duty and no reservists lived in actual cities away from fleet concentration areas.

Lipstick on a pig with swine flu. Hollow leadership at too many levels.

 

[kaldor2c7]

Well then maybe people will actually put thoughts toward what makes people want to stay. With recruiting the way it is, the military as a whole arguably has to do this now. Root causes for that are different and probably a topic for the War Zone.

But on the reserve side, it’s always boggled my mind how the NRCs get away with seemingly treating SELRES of all ranks like a bunch of damn active duty E-5s. And then on top of it, fostering way too many no-load TARs and civilians who suck at their jobs. That’s definitely not every NRC Sailor or civilian, but there are still too many. My CO is perpetually on my NRC’s GTCC hit list after submitting his training paperwork over five damn times. In a previous unit, another officer had orders kicked back multiple times for no street address on a duty location . . . which was in the field in the middle of fucking Shoalwater Bay, Australia. I could go on.

The work I do at my gaining command is rewarding, and part of me wants to stick around awhile in case Winnie the Pooh gets frisky. But dealing with the NRCs? FUCK that noise. It’s the damn DMV with uniforms. If I stay past 20, my gaining command work will keep me around. If I bail, it’ll be because 10 years of guilty-until-proven-innocent Mickey Mouse NRC bullshit just got to be too much.

Your statements are empowering for those of us hopefully being selected in the future. I did my first stint as an E-1 with VA-95 Green Lizzards back in 94. It was a different Navy then. I'm hoping with my re-entry into the IWC world as an O type I can make a difference. Tracking with your sentiment.