I thought this was an interesting article. At a time when Reserves seem to be such an integral role.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/13810907.htm
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/13810907.htm
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VFA-201 to be decommissioned?
- Thread starter gregsivers
- Start date
gregsivers said:
From the article: "Part of the reason is because the Navy, more than any other branch of service, views its reserve components as lesser partners to its active duty force."
How true.
Historically, naval air has long looked upon their reserve components with some disdain. Never mind that these reserve units are highly selective and therefore elite. Never mind that they are stacked with extraordinary talent, experience, and expertise that no active duty squadron could ever equal.
Also never mind, as the article so correctly states, that reserve squadrons "operate at 60 percent to 70 percent the cost of an active-duty squadron, and that the active-duty squadrons benefit from working with the far more experienced pilots of the reserves."
The perceived problems with the relationship between active and reserve naval air is primarily twofold:
1. There lingers a sense of betrayal; that these talented individuals have left active service and somehow betrayed a commitment others remaining on active duty hold dear, and;
2. There is a sense of jealousy; that these reservists can traipse on in from their high-paying airline jobs, don a flight suit and fly a front line fighter, then go back to being a civilian without enduring the many hardships of active duty – especially long cruises away from home and family.
Although these two perceptions are not entirely accurate, they do exist. And it has long been a source of friction between the two communities.
How sad....
When I grew up in the DFW area I lived right between NAS Dallas and Carswell AFB. You couldn't go outside without seeing a F-4, F-14, C-130, B-52, CH-53 or CH-47 fly over. Now you hardly ever see any military planes unless you are at the base....
My dad flew with VF-202 which was then VF-201's sister squadron. It got decommissioned in the 90's and then they closed NAS Dallas and moved what was left to Carswell. Its really really sad to see the Navy now lose all of their aviation assets in that area....
When I grew up in the DFW area I lived right between NAS Dallas and Carswell AFB. You couldn't go outside without seeing a F-4, F-14, C-130, B-52, CH-53 or CH-47 fly over. Now you hardly ever see any military planes unless you are at the base....
My dad flew with VF-202 which was then VF-201's sister squadron. It got decommissioned in the 90's and then they closed NAS Dallas and moved what was left to Carswell. Its really really sad to see the Navy now lose all of their aviation assets in that area....
loadtoad said:
WHAT !!?? YOU NEVER SAW ANY A4s FLYING OUT OF DALLAS ??!!!!!
I might have flown with/against your Dad if he drove F-4's in the late '70's-late 80's in Big-D. Here's some pix from a trip down memory lane I took in 2004 --- they were tearing down my old hangar @ NAS DALLAS .... truly sad. They call it progress ..... I guess.
Catmando said:
"Daybreak: Tucawka. The proud men and women of the Navy are fighting for freedom. But you're in Lubba, Texas, hosing stains off a monument. You're in the Naval Reserve. America's seventeenth line of defense, between the Mississippi National Guard, and the League of Women Voters. After basic training, you'll only have to work one weekend a month. And most of that time, you're drunk off your ass."
RESERVES not pulling their weight ??? Hey !!! If we wanted to go full time, we would have stayed in ... yes ??? There's a reason we were called ... "Weekend" .... 
..... BTW ... I nearly killed myself as many times being "part-time" as being a salaried Navy employee ..... and if my number had come up, I'd have been just as dead.
The moral? Don't shortchange or underestimate the Reserves ....
..... BTW ... I nearly killed myself as many times being "part-time" as being a salaried Navy employee ..... and if my number had come up, I'd have been just as dead. The moral? Don't shortchange or underestimate the Reserves ....
I will pour a little bit of cold water on the old guys here with a question.
When was the last time a reserve fighter or attack squadron deployed??
IMHO, the idea of CVWR-20 marrying up with a reserve carrier (JFK?) and heading out to do battle is over. I have not seen VF/VA/VFA reserve units do much outside of CONUS.
I do know that VAQ-209 is very heavily employed. In fact VAQ-209 was part of Allied Force flying out of Aviano and they just did a 60 day deployment to Iwakuni from 7 April to 8 June 2005 in support of MAG-12. They are a valuable supplement to the expeditionary Prowler force (VAQ-133/134/142, VMAQ-1/2/3/4) that supports USAF and USMC operations, especially with the disestablishment of VAQ-128.
Sorry, I just think that the reserve F/A-18 airframes are better utilized in the fleet/NSAWC/adversary roles.
When was the last time a reserve fighter or attack squadron deployed??
IMHO, the idea of CVWR-20 marrying up with a reserve carrier (JFK?) and heading out to do battle is over. I have not seen VF/VA/VFA reserve units do much outside of CONUS.
I do know that VAQ-209 is very heavily employed. In fact VAQ-209 was part of Allied Force flying out of Aviano and they just did a 60 day deployment to Iwakuni from 7 April to 8 June 2005 in support of MAG-12. They are a valuable supplement to the expeditionary Prowler force (VAQ-133/134/142, VMAQ-1/2/3/4) that supports USAF and USMC operations, especially with the disestablishment of VAQ-128.
Sorry, I just think that the reserve F/A-18 airframes are better utilized in the fleet/NSAWC/adversary roles.
SteveG75 said:
Actually, VFA-201 was mobilized in 2002 and did a cruise on the TR with CVW-8. IIRC, they led in boarding rates for all three line periods, and got Top Hook at the end of cruise.
SteveG75 said:
Amen, brother! Although I had so much fun in Iwakuni I felt I should probably be paying the Navy...
FlyinSpy said:
Actually .... Fvckin' A, FlyinSpy (I believe that's the venacular) .... you beat me to it. Hmmmmmm ...... let's see .... pour a little bit of cold H2O on the "old guys"?? How about if we spit it right back in your face ... ??? Just kidding .....
Check the link:
http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/approach/spotlight/VFA-201.htm
And while this might have been the exception to the rule ever since the Korean War .... don't talk to me about Reserves not being ..... "utilized". We did a lot of "stuff" when I was flying out of Dallas that was "off the books" -- Regulars couldn't do it for a variety of reasons --- and that's all I will say about that.
In addition, every exercise that we worked against the Regulars -- Navy, Marines, or Air Force --- we made a list and took names. Even with old equipment and older bodies. I think that's called .... "experience".
When I was an airline First Officer, one of the Captains I flew with left his "cushy" airline job, strapped on a fighter when UNCLE called , and spent the next 6 years in the Hanoi Hilton. My airline was filled with "old" guys who left their families, homes and jobs to serve when the Reserves and their Country called during the Vietnam years ..... old guys.
A4sForever said:
OK, OK, I give.
And, I did do a "Lobo" Flag back in 1994 with the reserves out of Mugu.
My point should have been that with the decrease in OPTAR and the declining need for a reserve airwing to go to war and the new USN-USMC Tacair integration plan where we get a Marine squadron in every airwing and the return of dedicated adversaries, the reserve F/A-18 squadrons are not seen by the NAvy leadership as needed.
I applaude VFA-201 for deploying in 2001, but what have they done in the last 5 years? Now compare that to how VAQ-209 has been used (some would say abused) in that time frame.
From a current Hunter: we do better and cheaper then just about anyone else. Our cost per flight hour is about $4,500 and our counterparts do it for about $7,500+. That alone should set of a big "hello stupid" Plus we went on cruise and not only beat the hell out of the other crews on the TR but also on the Truman for the Top Hook and putting "warheads on foreheads". Ya I know that the top hook is only b/t the CAG that you are in. As a maintainer this has been the best command that I have been with in 10 years in the Navy. And for any reserve "haters" we do it for the love of getting to work/fly on the best combat jet in the world, we sure do not do it for the pay. We are a tight knit squadron and we work just as hard as our counterparts. We may not go on cruise but we are on Det just about each month. I know that may seem like a hard life but how many times can you go to Key West in a year. Plus we operate day in and day out with 60% of the manning of a regnav squadron.
Now that I am off my high horse I do think that the reserve play a critical role in the Navy and the active duty just doesn’t see just what we do, all I can say is come wear our shoes for a month.
Now that I am off my high horse I do think that the reserve play a critical role in the Navy and the active duty just doesn’t see just what we do, all I can say is come wear our shoes for a month.
"I applaude VFA-201 for deploying in 2001, but what have they done in the last 5 years? Now compare that to how VAQ-209 has been used (some would say abused) in that time frame."
You ask what we have done in the last 5 years: we have been the adversaries squadron to train the active duty how to fly. We will soon be the surge squadron. Task us with more and we will show you we can do better and cheaper then our active bro's
You ask what we have done in the last 5 years: we have been the adversaries squadron to train the active duty how to fly. We will soon be the surge squadron. Task us with more and we will show you we can do better and cheaper then our active bro's
jplampy04 said:
Right .... and welcome aboard, jplamply04 ..... and after I did three (3) cruises I slithered into civie street and a "cushy" job to facilitate "escaping" my obligation to my Country.
In 11 years in the Reserves --- I usually did over 100 days of drills/active duty per year --- that's in addition to a "regular job" that took me away from home for nearly 1/2 of every month ... 12 months ... every year. "Weekend Warriors" .... I love the term. Always has been kind of a "badge of courage".
You are forgiven, Steve. You're a B/N ... to know B/N's is to love them. And understand them.
Trust me, I understand.
WHAT !!?? YOU NEVER SAW ANY A4s FLYING OUT OF DALLAS ??!!!!!
I might have flown with/against your Dad if he drove F-4's in the late '70's-late 80's in Big-D. Here's some pix from a trip down memory lane I took in 2004 --- they were tearing down my old hangar @ NAS DALLAS .... truly sad. They call it progress ..... I guess.
Hey! I recognise those pics!
Well my dad got there in the early 80's and retired in the mid 90's. Bob Morton "Rhino"... ring a bell at all? He was assigned to 202 but flew a lot with 201 because of his job or something