USN USNTPS or VAQ Transition?

[topher]

Background: I'm an end of tour (HSC) JO and decision time is on the horizon. I'm currently in one of the most overtasked/undermanned HSC squadrons in the Navy so I'm looking to A) Keep flying, B) Obtain and maintain some sort of job satisfaction while maintining a healthy(ish) work-life balance, and C) make myself more marketable to the outside world. FRS instructor and Weapons School are there for me if I want them, but neither are appealing. I love 60's but I'm less than thrilled with the HSC community... a different post for a different time, maybe.

From the beginning of flight school I was always 50/50 on jets/helos but ended up going through flight school right when the jet community started to be plagued with OBOGS issues, so rotary wing I went. I've always been interested in Test Pilot School, but the more research I do about HX-21 the less appealing rotary wing test sounds (also, wouldn't I still be working for the same community that I'm currently less than thrilled with?). TPS does, however, get you a masters degree, takes you to the end of your commitment, and seems to make you much more marketable to the private sector.

On the other hand I started to consider a VFA transition, but the more I talk to those guys/girls the less appealing that community sounds as well. Every time I hear the words "we do more with less" I cringe; and almost every JO/peer that I talk to plans to get out "at the first opportunity" for a myriad of different reasons. I've done a bit of research on VAQ and from what I can tell, people (pilots and EWOs) seem happy with their mission and the community.

My problem is this: There is very little information about both the Test Pilot community as well as the VAQ community; and I know pilots of both flavors exist on this site; so please, lay it on me. The obvious dream come true for me here would be to tansition to G's and then go to TPS, but unfortunately I'm most likely going to have to choose one or the other.

 

[Jim123]

You're five years into your naval career. When it's ten years from now and you're sitting around the bar with your buds, what do you want to look back and say that you did? What about twenty years? What about fifty when you have grandkids? Each one of your choices has some pretty great things going for it and each one has a few downsides too. I think it's smart that you're trying to try to look closely into the different communities, but I have a feeling it's going to come down to what do you want your career to look like when you look back at it.


(Hard to believe it's already been two years since CNATRA and NAVAIR punted OBOGS into the stands... heh... more like punted it into the parking lot, but anyhoo.)

 

[Python]

I wouldn’t dismiss VFA either. Yes it has its problems and I’m going to get out, but if I had to do it all over again I would. It’s a good thing to do once. If you’re looking to make a long career of it, that’s another story.

 

[wlawr005]

Plus, VAQ is the HSC of the F-18 world.

Smilies.

 

[wlawr005]

I wouldn’t dismiss VFA either. Yes it has its problems and I’m going to get out, but if I had to do it all over again I would. It’s a good thing to do once. If you’re looking to make a long career of it, that’s another story.

In all seriousness, I agree. It's been awesome and people aren't leaving because of the mission set. In fact, they'd probably stiff the airlines a few more years if the man would let them do more VFA and less JPME.

I know several first tour JOs, including myself, who volunteered to go back to back sea duty and were told no. DH timing and other detailer buzzwords were thrown around in chaotic fury.

 

[topher]

One of the added complexities of transitioning is the 5 year commitment that you buy after the FRS. If I only had to worry about (potentially) living in Lemoore for 3 years (not including the FRS) I would most definitely preference VFA; but 6 years!? I'll take Whidbey.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Plus, VAQ is the HSC of the F-18 world.

Smilies.

But in VAQ he gets lots of A-A training flights...

 

[navyterp67]

But in VAQ he gets lots of A-A training flights...

...and absolutely crushes a blue-on-blue. Still haven’t seen that keg.

 

[SynixMan]

You're looking at two very small, relatively, programs. Helo quotas for TPS have been pretty low lately (like 1-2 per board), and even then, TPS hasn't been a guarantee of future career milestones lately. Three warfare transition quotas got picked up in the last board. Splitting hairs on which pointy nose duty station you want seems a bit much. I get it, Lemoore is a shit hole, but you either want it or don't.

If I were in your shoes, I'd get production shore orders (FRS or CNATRA, a SWTI patch will lock you in) so you've got a fallback if it doesn't work out. It's very realistic you don't get either of these programs and have to continue on. For the warfare transition, you need to be junior enough and have a strong enough record to survive 2 years of NOB time in VTJs and the FRS before you get back to the fleet. Friends I've known with strong records who tried half way into their shore tour were too senior, so timing is key. Ideally on your JO fleet tour with high water FITREP and orders in hand or shortly after you get to shore duty.

Oh, and meant to add, VT IP checks all the A, B, and C boxes you talked about and keeps you relatively competitive both in Navy and outside, but it ain't tactical in the slightest. Not nearly as competitive as FRS/WWS for DH, but a definitely a path back to the -60 should you want it.

 

[topher]

If I were in your shoes, I'd get production shore orders (FRS or CNATRA, a SWTI patch will lock you in) so you've got a fallback if it doesn't work out.

I'm not sure how it works in other communities, I've always assumed it was the same, but in the rotary-wing community we "nom" 2-3 quarters before our PRD. That's where you get selected for a production job. TPS and Aviation Warfare Transition are separate applications. (I apologize if I am insulting anyone's intelligence here.)

As with everything else in this career, timing is everything, and I couldn't ask for better timing. I'm going to "nom" this November. My front office has asked me to submit an application to TPS this December, I'll receive my high-water in at the beginning of next year (projected to leave as a #1 or #2) and I would submit my VFA/VAQ transition package along with a second TPS package in May/June for a June PRD... so regardless of what I decide to do, I'll have production orders before making any other moves.

 

[thump]

HSM - TPS - HX background.

HX has been fine for career milestones. The detailers just try to keep it under wraps. 5/5 HX JO's picked up O4 this round. Long as I've been there, nobody who wanted DH or AEDO hasn't gotten it. You also get out of the shoe appreciation tour (likewise at VAQ, I assume). You'll miss out on the FRS koolaid but sounds like you aren't into that anyway.

USNTPS does not get you a masters. It gets you a course or two worth of credit towards particular programs at NPS (aero or systems) or JHU (systems). The "Patch plus masters" gig is USAFTPS, which does not have a rotary course. There's grad school time/opportunities though, lots of folks are doing one of the above or a local-ish MBA of some sort.

You won't be "working for the HSC community" at HX - you'll be working for NAVAIR (which is arguably not an improvement, lol). We're all dual R/S qual'ed and work projects in both. They're basically the same aircraft after all. HX is also "overtasked and undermanned" so that's going to be a constant. If there's a community in the Navy right now that is adequately resourced for its tasking, I'd love to hear about it.

Happy to chat further via PM if interested!

 

[Pags]

What kind of work do you want to do in the outside world? Also, how would going to VAQ help your work/life balance? It'd still be the Fleet and the oeprational world so I can only imagine that the long deployments and work days would still be there. I'd also be very surprised to find out that VAQ doesn't have some amount of "more with less" issue going on. At the end of the day it's still the Fleet and there will still be Fleet issues and stuff to do. Also the career implications of the NOB time in flight school part two and being an unquallified Super JO shouldn't be overlooked.

Not sure what you've heard about the work load of USNTPS but it certainly isn't a walk in the park. That said, I think @thump did a good job discussing what you do at HX and who you work for. If you're at all interested in AEDO, engineering, engineering management then TPS is a great way to get in to that world.

Finally, I doubt that TPS and VAQ tansition are guarantees. The TPS application process isn't easy and is still subject to the needs to the test programs. If HX doesn't need a 60 guy that board then you won't get picked. There are people who submit mulitple packages to USNTPS hoping to get picked up. There are plenty of folks who have PCSd one to other orders and then been picked up for USNTPS during subsequent boards. I've known several guys who went to VX-1 while they re-submitted their TPS packages as well as TPS folks from FRS, WWS, and VTs. I beleive there's also still a committment that comes with TPS.

So it comes down to what do you want to do...

1. Stay HSC and go FRS/WWS. Good for your career and keeps you flying especially if you go WWS. As a WTI you'd be set to keep flying through your DH tour at least.
2. Go VAQ and play flight school and learn a new aircraft. Play the fitrep 500 as a weirdo in a system that doesn't like weirdos. A potential ong term benefit is that you'd get FW time if you want to do the airline gig later in life.
3. Go to TPS and keep flying. The TPS curriculum will expose you to a lot of different a/c and you may end up flying something other than an H-60 depending on what test programs are in need of bodies. Or you could end up at UX-24 flying MQ-8s. Again, you'd be flying until at least your DH tour and you'd be well set up if you wanted to do get in to engineering/program management.

 

[topher]

I beleive there's also still a committment that comes with TPS.

You're not the first person to tell me this, but I can't find it published anywhere like it is on the Aviation Warfare Transition page of pers. Can you or @thump confirm?

 

[Pags]

You're not the first person to tell me this, but I can't find it published anywhere like it is on the Aviation Warfare Transition page of pers. Can you or @thump confirm?

My info is dated; would recommend you reach out to the PoCs listed at NPC for current info.

 

[SynixMan]

I'm not sure how it works in other communities, I've always assumed it was the same, but in the rotary-wing community we "nom" 2-3 quarters before our PRD. That's where you get selected for a production job. TPS and Aviation Warfare Transition are separate applications. (I apologize if I am insulting anyone's intelligence here.)

As with everything else in this career, timing is everything, and I couldn't ask for better timing. I'm going to "nom" this November. My front office has asked me to submit an application to TPS this December, I'll receive my high-water in at the beginning of next year (projected to leave as a #1 or #2) and I would submit my VFA/VAQ transition package along with a second TPS package in May/June for a June PRD... so regardless of what I decide to do, I'll have production orders before making any other moves.

I was HSC, I get the nom process. You're going to nom on a projection, just like I did. I don't know what you've already communicated, and I'm not at all insulting you or your front office, but you're in a precarious spot. If you've got a very cool front office, they might be good with your aspirations that are slightly "off path" for HSC. TPS maybe a little bit, but warfare transition definitely. If they aren't, you might be opening yourself up to risks. You can do all these packages once you've got production orders and a fleet EP FITREP in your hand without too much risk.

My caution is from watching two fleet JOs ask for off path orders and get FITREP downgraded, plus another person jump up to an unexpected EP because of it, which the CO told everyone directly in an AOM.

Hopefully that makes sense.