The NAMI Whammy

[Seniuram]

After graduating OCS and spending 3 months in StuPool, last night, unfortunately I received the NAMI whammy disqualifying me from all flight due to adhd medication I took in 2014/15 for about 6 months. I have been given the option to retest on the infamous ADHD exam which I said “sign me up” too. The first time I took the exam it came back negative for ADHD and was recommended I be cleared however NAMI thought otherwise. This is quite a unique case so I couldn’t really find any insight on this. If any flight surgeons or prior/current aviators could shed some light it would be greatly appreciated.
Is the NAMI board that meets every Thursday to review packets the same people every week?
I get to retake the exam around April 23 due to the mandatory 6 months required after initial test. I have fought pretty hard to get where I am and willing to fight more.

 

[Meyerkord]

Sorry to hear that, man. I thought that would be something they could tell you before you started going through OCS, but I guess not. I hope everything works out.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

Someone smarter than me can comment on this hopefully, and I am NOT sure if it applies for pre-winged folks, but I do know that there is a process you can go through requesting a special board to convene for your case. Had a friend that did this when NAMI would not recommend him for a SG-1 waiver (meaning would not be able to teach as a flight instructor) even though he had cleared everything in the waiver guide and had waited the required six months. They wanted to wait another six months because "that's what we did in a previous case". He ended up getting approved.

Again, unsure if that policy is only for winged aviators or if students can request one. I'd talk to a flight suit in stucon, or a flight doc, or even NAMI themselves about whether that is a possibility for you or not. But fight as hard as you can...

 

[TimeBomb]

What does your disqualification letter say? Is there another diagnosis in your medical records that could be non-waiverable?

Special Boards of Flight Surgeons were typically reserved for designated aviators, but I saw one in my time there for a student who was a few flights from winging.

V/R

 

[Seniuram]

What does your disqualification letter say? Is there another diagnosis in your medical records that could be non-waiverable?

Special Boards of Flight Surgeons were typically reserved for designated aviators, but I saw one in my time there for a student who was a few flights from winging.

V/R

All it had was “at this moment waiver not granted. Resubmit as directed. They want to see improvements in the attention and executive thinking with a follow up neuropsych examination” I was also curious about the wording of the disqual, it says “Not physically qualified but aeronautically adapted for all duty involving flying” can you explain this?

 

[TimeBomb]

This is good news. NAMI is asking you to retake the neuropsychiatric tests and resubmit the results for a waiver consideration. If you do better on the next set of tests, it sounds like a waiver is a good possibility. Neuropsychiatric test performance is very dependent on the test environment and a ton of other factors. I would imagine you might score better now that you are familiar with the type of tests being administered, and there won't be as much of a learning effect in your score. It would be great if you could do the repeat testing at NAMI, since they're very cognizant of the factors that adversely affect the test results, and go to great lengths to eliminate them.

"Physically qualified/Not Physically Qualified" refers to medical conditions, and "(Not) Aeronautically Adapted/Adaptable" refers to behaviors needed to successfully function in Naval aviation. PQ/AA means someone has no disqualifying physical conditions, and is able to function (or in the case of students, is expected to be able to function) as an aviator. You are not physically qualified (NPQ) due to the ADHD diagnosis, but you're expected to have the behavioral traits to be able to function in that environment (AA).

V/R

 

[Seniuram]

This is good news. NAMI is asking you to retake the neuropsychiatric tests and resubmit the results for a waiver consideration. If you do better on the next set of tests, it sounds like a waiver is a good possibility. Neuropsychiatric test performance is very dependent on the test environment and a ton of other factors. I would imagine you might score better now that you are familiar with the type of tests being administered, and there won't be as much of a learning effect in your score. It would be great if you could do the repeat testing at NAMI, since they're very cognizant of the factors that adversely affect the test results, and go to great lengths to eliminate them.

"Physically qualified/Not Physically Qualified" refers to medical conditions, and "(Not) Aeronautically Adapted/Adaptable" refers to behaviors needed to successfully function in Naval aviation. PQ/AA means someone has no disqualifying physical conditions, and is able to function (or in the case of students, is expected to be able to function) as an aviator. You are not physically qualified (NPQ) due to the ADHD diagnosis, but you're expected to have the behavioral traits to be able to function in that environment (AA).

V/R

Thank you for the feedback, it has been very helpful.

 

[FiveSevenK9]

Hey everyone, I graduated OCS on Nov 8th and have been in TMG since. I just recieved a medical dq for SNA from NAMI as of Nov 22. The letter says "unspecified disorder of cornea H189 Topography out of standards for SNA". Since I was told I had a 50/50 chance for dq back during week 1 of training, I've been doing a lot of research on my issue since then.

I have full 20/20, full depth perception at 40 arc, and full field of view. However, NAMI must think I will go blind due to a potential risk of me developing keratoconus as seen with yellow circles on my topography. It is extremely frustrating when I read how NAMI allows cornea cross linking surgery to prevent this issue in active winged pilots and it has approximately a 95% success rate. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem a waiver or surgery is possible for applicants.

I am currently waiting to see if I can redesignate as NFO since topography is only performed for SNA. How realistic is it for me to hope I can get CXL surgery as an NFO and Lat-transfer to pilot later down the line?

Any chance I can appeal to a special board? I'm reaching for everything at this point.

 

[Waveoff]

How realistic is it for me to hope I can get CXL surgery as an NFO and Lat-transfer to pilot later down the line?

Only eye surgery I am personally aware of is LASIK and PRK. As for NFO to pilot transition, that is extremely limited and absolutely not something I would count on. Possible, yes... but not the norm by any means. In the last selection round, only 6 applicants had the right set of timing and probably qualifications to be selected. If you choose SNFO, you have to be emotionally ready to accept NFO as your career, unless you get the right opportunity to put in a pilot package and maybe get lucky years down the line (talking at least 2 for wings, then ~1 for FRS, 3 more for Sea tour).

As for people in your medical position, to be blunt the Navy hasn't gotten anything out of you yet to potentially warrant an expensive surgery. The Navy allows this for winged pilots because they have already sunk a shit ton of money getting them through flight school and then their platform qualifications. That is opposed to someone in your shoes, where the Navy is likely to be more inclined to say, "yeah cool that you want it, but the list of 'normal' SNAs is long and we could more quickly get you into the SNFO pipeline instead of having you get scheduled for the surgery, then have who knows long of follow ups before you even get cleared. And thats not assuming the ever possible chance of failing out of flight school, making the whole thing a sunk cost for the DoD."

You have to factor in that the pilot's most important physical attribute are their eyes. If there is any possible sign that something could go wrong at the worst possible time, they will take the cautious route. Its why NFOs have always been the ones with glasses and the butt of jokes (among many reasons... I am one of them after all). Never heard of a special board, unless you can possibly get some kind of waiver from a specialist that NAMI will accept.

 

[TimeBomb]

Although long retired, I would recommend making alternate career plans. Waveoff is spot on regarding the reality of waiver recommendations for non-designated personnel. A Special Board of Flight Surgeons is a theoretical possibility (MANMED 15-81 doesn't specifically exclude candidates), but I never saw one convened for a candidate.

Remember that any change like NFO to SNA will require you to meet SNA physical standards before starting training.

OC to SNFO to DNFO, to successful corneal surgery and waiver for DNFO, to DNFO with waiver -> SNA with waiver, to DNA with waiver looks like it is going to require the alignment of many factors outside your sphere of influence.

As I've said here before, accession for the Navy is a simple business decision. We break enough people in the normal course of doing business that it doesn't make financial sense to start the process behind the cost curve.

V/R

 

[FiveSevenK9]

Only eye surgery I am personally aware of is LASIK and PRK. As for NFO to pilot transition, that is extremely limited and absolutely not something I would count on. Possible, yes... but not the norm by any means. In the last selection round, only 6 applicants had the right set of timing and probably qualifications to be selected. If you choose SNFO, you have to be emotionally ready to accept NFO as your career, unless you get the right opportunity to put in a pilot package and maybe get lucky years down the line (talking at least 2 for wings, then ~1 for FRS, 3 more for Sea tour).

As for people in your medical position, to be blunt the Navy hasn't gotten anything out of you yet to potentially warrant an expensive surgery. The Navy allows this for winged pilots because they have already sunk a shit ton of money getting them through flight school and then their platform qualifications. That is opposed to someone in your shoes, where the Navy is likely to be more inclined to say, "yeah cool that you want it, but the list of 'normal' SNAs is long and we could more quickly get you into the SNFO pipeline instead of having you get scheduled for the surgery, then have who knows long of follow ups before you even get cleared. And thats not assuming the ever possible chance of failing out of flight school, making the whole thing a sunk cost for the DoD."

You have to factor in that the pilot's most important physical attribute are their eyes. If there is any possible sign that something could go wrong at the worst possible time, they will take the cautious route. Its why NFOs have always been the ones with glasses and the butt of jokes (among many reasons... I am one of them after all). Never heard of a special board, unless you can possibly get some kind of waiver from a specialist that NAMI will accept.

Yes CXL is fairly new and was updated in NAMI waiver guidelines in JUL 2018. I understand what I dream of happening is a long shot and very unrealistic. I think the most upsetting part is LASIK is a much more dangerous surgery, however civilians can pursue it outside the navy and get a waiver. I cannot pursue CXL on my own according to the waiver documentation under NAMI’s guidelines. As much as it stings I am open to being an NFO. I would love to hear about your experiences and career as an NFO if you are able to share.

 

[FiveSevenK9]

Although long retired, I would recommend making alternate career plans. Waveoff is spot on regarding the reality of waiver recommendations for non-designated personnel. A Special Board of Flight Surgeons is a theoretical possibility (MANMED 15-81 doesn't specifically exclude candidates), but I never saw one convened for a candidate.

Remember that any change like NFO to SNA will require you to meet SNA physical standards before starting training.

OC to SNFO to DNFO, to successful corneal surgery and waiver for DNFO, to DNFO with waiver -> SNA with waiver, to DNA with waiver looks like it is going to require the alignment of many factors outside your sphere of influence.

As I've said here before, accession for the Navy is a simple business decision. We break enough people in the normal course of doing business that it doesn't make financial sense to start the process behind the cost curve.

V/R

I appreciate your input. As the days go by, I’m becoming more realistic that it just isn’t in the cards for me to fly. Maybe NAMI will bring CXL up to the same protocol LASIK is at one day. I would love to talk with you about your NFO career if you have the time as I plan my next steps.

 

[Pianistwithwings]

Although long retired, I would recommend making alternate career plans. Waveoff is spot on regarding the reality of waiver recommendations for non-designated personnel. A Special Board of Flight Surgeons is a theoretical possibility (MANMED 15-81 doesn't specifically exclude candidates), but I never saw one convened for a candidate.

Remember that any change like NFO to SNA will require you to meet SNA physical standards before starting training.

OC to SNFO to DNFO, to successful corneal surgery and waiver for DNFO, to DNFO with waiver -> SNA with waiver, to DNA with waiver looks like it is going to require the alignment of many factors outside your sphere of influence.

As I've said here before, accession for the Navy is a simple business decision. We break enough people in the normal course of doing business that it doesn't make financial sense to start the process behind the cost curve.

V/R

Additionally to piggy-back off of what Waveoff and Timebomb said, try and grow where you are planted. In my case the ophthalmologist did not recommend corrective surgery because my eye's are "too good," and either procedure would correct my distance vision at the expense of being able to read without glasses.

 

[Waveoff]

Feel free to DM me about NFO life. Current P-8 instructor.

 

[FiveSevenK9]

Sadly just got the full aviation dq confirmed today. The navy will not let me in a plane. Figuring out my next steps from here