Summary Court-Marshall- a no go?

[USMC_Sparky]

I wasn't really sure where else to post this so I thought miscellaneous would be the most appropriate.

I am a prior service Marine who just completed his bachelors degree. I'm 29 (turning 30 March of 2012) and I want to go back in and become a naval aviator. So far there are a few challenges I face and I'm looking for some advice from some of the AW community.

1. My age- if I recall correctly you must be commissioned before age 30 to fly. I've already missed the summer OCS so October would be the next chance to go correct?
2. A summary court marshall- Yea I had one, I've read up on this and it seems it's more like an upscale NJP. The convictions don't follow you outside of the military, similar to an NJP. I wasn't kicked out, in fact I was discharged after I fulfilled my contract with an honorable and a RE1A.

I guess my real concern is the court marshall on my record. It was a very MINOR offense. I'd be glad to share the details if it has any bearing on weather I can still apply for OCS or not. Would a waiver be possible? Could this be something I can explain or would it be a flat out NO? Thanks for the help!

SF

 

[Harrier Dude]

Long story short, it's not a flat out "no", but it is a very, VERY long shot for you. Age issues, SPCM......

It's not helping your cause.

That said, all you can do is apply and see what happens. Be ready to explain in excruciating detail what you did, why it was a bad idea, what you learned from it, and why you you would NEVER do anything even remotely like it again.

I'd have a solid backup career plan ready if I were you.

Good luck.

 

[DocT]

Very minor sounds like NJP. A SCM is kind of a big deal.

 

[fattestfoot]

Agree with DocT. Maybe whoever held your court martial told you it was no big deal or something, but I guarantee if an application came across the board that had an SCM it'd be a huge red flag. "I screwed up something minor" says article 15 to me. "I committed a crime" is what SCM says. You'll have to be some kind of phenomenal applicant for them to overlook it. Right now, probably more than any time in the last 15 years, the boards can choose to be extremely picky. There's definitely no shortage of applicants.

All that said, you're also too old to fly. You won't be getting an OCS date before you turn 30, period. You'd be cutting it close to get an NFO slot based on age.

It can't hurt to apply, but the deck is stacked WAY against you.

 

[phrogdriver]

A SCM is a big deal, if you got convicted, which it sounds as if you did.

Did you refuse NJP to get there?

 

[Harrier Dude]

A SCM is a big deal, if you got convicted, which it sounds as if you did.

Did you refuse NJP to get there?

I think your thinking of the Special Court Martial (SPCM) vice a Summary Court Martial (SCM).

As I understand it, the OP had a SCM, which is basically a super NJP. Not a huge deal civilian-wise, but not something good for your military record/application. It has no true civilian equivalent. If anything, something like traffic court.

A SPCM would almost certainly be disqualifying for commissioning, and in the civilian world would be roughly equivalent to a misdemeanor.

Obviously a General Court Martial (GCM) is really bad, and is roughly equivalent to a felony.

One thing that most folks don't know is that for the crime to give you the civilian equivalent record, your state must have that as a crime at that level. So if you have a GCM conviction for adultery, and your state doesn't make adultery a crime, then you won't have a felony record in that state.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Whoever told you it wasn't a big deal was probably comparing it to the civilian world.
SPCM = Federal Misdemeanor
GCM = Federal Felony

I'm kind of curious to find out how you got a SCM. The only ones I've seen are drug related cases where the accused has the option of going to SPCM and facing a possible federal charge or agreeing to plead guilty at SCM. End result being brig + adsep.

Edit: HD posted same time as I did. I believe SPCM = Special and SCM = Summary though.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Whoever told you it wasn't a big deal was probably comparing it to the civilian world.
SPCM = Federal Misdemeanor
GCM = Federal Felony

I'm kind of curious to find out how you got a SCM. The only ones I've seen are drug related cases where the accused has the option of going to SPCM and facing a possible federal charge or agreeing to plead guilty at SCM. End result being brig + adsep.

Edit: HD posted same time as I did. I believe SPCM = Special and SCM = Summary though.

You are mixing up the SPCM and the SCM as well.

99% of SCMs are guilty pleas. Just like an NJP, you can refuse it and go to Special. The SPCM is the lowest CM that you cannot refuse.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

I'm confused. Your first sentence says I am mixing up Special/Summary. Then your second paragraph contradicts that.

I spent about 8 months in the prosecutor's office on base doing a boat load of Summary Court Martial packages (and a few interesting Specials and Generals). But I have brain dumped all that info, so I could be off.

 

[KBayDog]

But I have brain dumped all that info...

Good idea. The brain has a finite capacity; no reason to waste space with useless info. Forgetting things is normal; it's the brain's way of making room for stuff that matters.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

As long as I don't forget who scored four touchdowns in a single game at Polk High

 

[phrogdriver]

I didn't think I was mixing them up. The summary is convened by a squadron or battalion CO. I thought that if one refused NJP the case could end up on the lowest level, summary, rather than going another level to a special.

Is it a big deal in the scheme of things? Probably not. In the context of applying for officer programs, probably, if only for the fact that there are lots of guys beating down that door without courts martial around their necks.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Nutshell version of the escalation of pain, from my memory, which means it's pretty close, but likely not perfect.

NJP: administrative in nature, can be refused unless afloat, and maxes out at loss of one rank, either 60 days of restriction OR extra duty, or 45 days of both. Loss of up to 50% pay for 2 months. Run by CO, no lawyer represents you. No discharged awarded, but may be referred to an ADSEP.

SCM: criminal in nature, can be refused unless afloat, maxes out same as NJP except can reduce to E-1, and can include confinement up to 30 days. Loss of 66% pay for two months. Run by designated officer, no lawyer represents you. No discharged awarded, but may be referred to an ADSEP.

SPCM: criminal in nature, cannot be refused. Maxes out at 1 year confinement, reduction to E-1, loss of all pay and allowances. Rules of evidence apply and counsel is provided. Run by a judge, jury and lawyers. Punitive discharges can be awarded up to BCD.

GCM: criminal in nature, cannot be refused. Maxes out at confinement for life, death penalty, reduction to E-1, loss of all pay and allowances. Rules of evidence apply and counsel is provided. Run by a judge, jury and lawyers. Punitive discharges can be awarded up to DD.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Obviously a General Court Martial (GCM) is really bad, and is roughly equivalent to a felony.

Interesting aside - My NCOIC when I was fresh out of boot camp had a conviction at a General Court Martial on his record. He was a drill instructor, and got convicted of abuse of a recruit. Got busted at the GCM from SSgt to Cpl, ended up pulling it out of the fire, and was meritoriously promoted to Sgt a year or so later. He ended up retiring as a Gunny, but it took a SHIT LOAD of work on his part to get to that point. And, this was in the early '90s. Don't think that would happen today...

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Weird shit can happen at sentencing in military trials, because the jury (not the judge) determines the sentence based on UCMJ sentencing guidelines.

So you have a group of people with no real baseline for what a fair or reasonable sentence for the crime is, and it can completely vary from trial to trial.

We had a Marine go on a bender and get sent to Leavenworth for a really long time, then a little later had a Sailor found guilty of some way more heinous things and he only got a few years.