-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Sending newly winged aviators to reserve squadrons...
- Thread starter bigmouth
- Start date
- Status
Fly Navy said:
Are you kidding me?!?!?! Who cares, send a PM if you do, but this is about a serious issue studs are facing.
IMO this is a HUGE bone job for the new P-3 guys. Hope for your sakes it passes into the bad idea bin along with the making navy guys into marine helo drivers for a few years..
good luck
bch said:
You know...it seems like I have been hearing a lot of "ideas" lately where after hearing it, I just sit back and say "WTF?!?!"
Is this common? Or do they come and go?
Happens every few months, on all levels, squadron, wing, fleet. Most of the time its BS, but it spools people up, no one likes having their world turned on its a$$.
Sometimes, even by accident, this stuff gets blown out of proportion. I remember a rumor that started as a joke that all VP squadrons in Hawaii were being moved to Guam. New guys were freaking out. It all started from some nugget overhearing a "what-if" conversation at the wing and misinterpreting it. Total BS.
Back on topic, this is a pretty sh!tty deal. One if those stories that's gonna be legendary in 10 years.
Considering the way they've been dumping people out of the program, and the Navy lately, I'm suprised they're even offering this solution. IRAD is a very real threat for guys out there without a lot of time on the books. I wonder if they considered just offering these guys to get out of the Nav entirely.
Sometimes, even by accident, this stuff gets blown out of proportion. I remember a rumor that started as a joke that all VP squadrons in Hawaii were being moved to Guam. New guys were freaking out. It all started from some nugget overhearing a "what-if" conversation at the wing and misinterpreting it. Total BS.
Back on topic, this is a pretty sh!tty deal. One if those stories that's gonna be legendary in 10 years.
Considering the way they've been dumping people out of the program, and the Navy lately, I'm suprised they're even offering this solution. IRAD is a very real threat for guys out there without a lot of time on the books. I wonder if they considered just offering these guys to get out of the Nav entirely.
bigmouth
You know I don't speak Spanish!
What's IRAD?
Anyway, it's definitely not just a rumor. It has been offered to '03 Navy graduates in both primary and VT-31. You do 2 years AD at a reserve squadron, then 6 years as a select reservist, or whatever they're called. It seems like a good deal to me, considering the fact that there are so many P-3 students in the pipeline right now, and so few hours to be had in the fleet. This way, you build up hours flying C-40's, C-9's or C-130's etc. and after two years you may get picked up by a commuter airline. You'll be a military-trained aviator with only a 2-year AD commitment, as opposed to 8.
Thoughts?
Anyway, it's definitely not just a rumor. It has been offered to '03 Navy graduates in both primary and VT-31. You do 2 years AD at a reserve squadron, then 6 years as a select reservist, or whatever they're called. It seems like a good deal to me, considering the fact that there are so many P-3 students in the pipeline right now, and so few hours to be had in the fleet. This way, you build up hours flying C-40's, C-9's or C-130's etc. and after two years you may get picked up by a commuter airline. You'll be a military-trained aviator with only a 2-year AD commitment, as opposed to 8.
Thoughts?
IRAD
Involuntary Release from Active Duty. Remember a few months ago when the Navy started culling 400 (i think, i may be wrong on the exact number) or so officers from the JO ranks? Guys who attrited out of the flight program and wanted to lat trans to SWO or Intel or whatever, SWO guys who never earned their pin, etc. They were told to go home, no more Navy. Still an ongoing program, but just not as publicized (meaning not a blurb on Navy Times front page).
Sounds like they're trying to do the right thing. They could easily take the 40 guys with the lowest NSS's and say "see ya". Instead they're offering a shot at wings and a squadron. The bad part is, its a bummer for guys wanting to deploy and do the real-world tactical stuff. I think a lot of older guys with families (prior-e's especially) might like this idea, more at home time.
Involuntary Release from Active Duty. Remember a few months ago when the Navy started culling 400 (i think, i may be wrong on the exact number) or so officers from the JO ranks? Guys who attrited out of the flight program and wanted to lat trans to SWO or Intel or whatever, SWO guys who never earned their pin, etc. They were told to go home, no more Navy. Still an ongoing program, but just not as publicized (meaning not a blurb on Navy Times front page).
Sounds like they're trying to do the right thing. They could easily take the 40 guys with the lowest NSS's and say "see ya". Instead they're offering a shot at wings and a squadron. The bad part is, its a bummer for guys wanting to deploy and do the real-world tactical stuff. I think a lot of older guys with families (prior-e's especially) might like this idea, more at home time.
bigmouth
You know I don't speak Spanish!
Ok, I see your point. One, you won't be doing tactical flying, and two, flying in the military is more fun regardless of whether it's tactical or not. But my point is, I might not even have eight years of flying to look forward to in the first place. With so few P-3 hours, making AC would be hard, so then you'd have your shore-tour (hopefully as an IP), and then what? Without the AC qual., you wouldn't make Dept Head. So then you do the disassociated sea tour, right? Well, no flying there.
It seems to me that this may be the only viable option to keep flying for us poor, dejected P-3 selectees...
It seems to me that this may be the only viable option to keep flying for us poor, dejected P-3 selectees...
The purpose of dropping these guys from the P-3 pipeline goes along with the reduction of Fleet Maritime assets that is in the works. I've heard everything from 30 pilots, total, in every squadron, to pulling one active squadron from every site, and shifting from a deployment rotation to dets.
There's still gonna be aircrews, and they'll still need PPCs. Math-wise (as I abuse the English language), every reporting 3P has to eventually qualify as a PPC to keep continuity and crews tactically ready as per stan notes (crews are organized and kept together for the most part for proficiency). By pulling some bodies, they keep a glut of pilots out of the system and later, out of a position of "too many pilots, too few seats".
My guess is, the intention is to have one pilot for every position in the squadron at all times (which is not always the case right now), no more, no less. The guys who end up staying in Maritime advanced now, once winged, won't get as many hours as guys in the past, true, but they will still be flying.
Getting an IP or other flying billet isn't impossible, most 2nd tour billets are flying jobs, whether its the FRS, VTs, VX, station pilot, or whatever else is out there. Yes, people do get jammed with a non flying billet occasionally (I almost did), fact of life. But it isn't like you can count on not flying after your first tour. Bottom line, this seems to be a solution to the issue of too many single-anchor types in a VP squadron in years to come. The alternative offered isn't great, but it's better than managing a TGIFriday's or Chotchsky's.
There's still gonna be aircrews, and they'll still need PPCs. Math-wise (as I abuse the English language), every reporting 3P has to eventually qualify as a PPC to keep continuity and crews tactically ready as per stan notes (crews are organized and kept together for the most part for proficiency). By pulling some bodies, they keep a glut of pilots out of the system and later, out of a position of "too many pilots, too few seats".
My guess is, the intention is to have one pilot for every position in the squadron at all times (which is not always the case right now), no more, no less. The guys who end up staying in Maritime advanced now, once winged, won't get as many hours as guys in the past, true, but they will still be flying.
Getting an IP or other flying billet isn't impossible, most 2nd tour billets are flying jobs, whether its the FRS, VTs, VX, station pilot, or whatever else is out there. Yes, people do get jammed with a non flying billet occasionally (I almost did), fact of life. But it isn't like you can count on not flying after your first tour. Bottom line, this seems to be a solution to the issue of too many single-anchor types in a VP squadron in years to come. The alternative offered isn't great, but it's better than managing a TGIFriday's or Chotchsky's.
I don't know anything about the program, I do understand the whys and hows. I also know reserve flying. FNG/non PPC or not, you will fly, and more than once a month, and you will deploy as a newby pilot in a reserve squadron. I agree, it is likely not a good deal for most guys. But don't volunteer for the orders thinking you are going to skate along working 0800-1700 M-F with no out of conus work. If you do get the orders and want to make more of it you can. To begin with, you don't have to get out at the two year point. If you have done a good enough job, you can stay on just like any other officer reaching his active service obligation.
Tangential question from an uninformed Primary stud . . . do you think the drawdown in pilots is also designed to trim the community down for the MMA arrival (long-term, I know)? Given that a 737 doesn't take 3 pilots, maybe this is a foreshadowing of cuts to come (assuming the MMA isn't one of those cuts itself of course).
- Status