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Riot thread

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
+1.....I don't even know if the Eugene (OR) city council is that crazy. We had originally thought about moving to SEA once I was done with the reserves. No chance paddles. Think we are probably just gonna stay on the island long term. I consider myself to be a pretty "centrist" guy. My WA ballot was a smorgasbord of (R) and (D) votes. Also are the ballots here always this weird? Everyone was able to just write in the party they "identify with" in their own personalized way....like "Pre-2016 GOP" WTF? Anyway, back to the point, when I go home to OR, I would be considered wildly conservative by most I think. And amongst my conservative friends, I'm probably the full on liberal (which isn't true either). Long story short, Western OR, particularly EUG and PDX are extremely hostile towards those who don't conform to a strictly liberal script. I've since learned to just shut my mouth and smile, ask for another drink. I'd imagine metro SEA is similar.
The ballots didn't used to be that bad and weird, the area used to be more probably like you are, as places like Amazon and Microsoft attracted more people from CA who were looking for better home prices and good tech jobs things have shifted, if you look at many of the wacky politicians up here quite a few moved here from areas that I would consider very liberal.

When Obama was president and I was in uniform or had a shirt that said "NAVY" I would be yelled at in Seattle, or people tried to spit on me. The liberals in Seattle are very tolerant of other people, if you believe everything that they do and do not challenge them.

I was at a career fair a few years ago in Seattle as a vendor and during lunch with other recruiters a few from decent sized businesses in Seattle suggested that as soon as I had about 10 years of civilian experience to drop off my military time, they said they have seen too many veterans get looked at by the hiring managers who were not picked for interviews, they couldn't prove it was due to military background but it was very suspect, they said if I was applying to one of their locations in a more Midwest or Southern state it would be fine.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
I mean, you could make a strong argument that current POTUS is a 3rd party president.
Not really because there is not a third party.
Center left or center right get ostracized by either party as RINOs or DINOs.

Polling indicates we have a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 split in Red, Blue, and Independent. 1/3 of Americans are effectively disenfranchised as I see it, as the primary system ensures they get nothing but the good old “Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich” choice in voting.
But I don’t know that a Third Party alone helps things. Hillary was actually a pretty centrist candidate. She was just also supremely dislikeable. I think it’s more problematic that in the entire country we struggle to find a decent, intelligent charismatic person willing to subject themselves to the election process once every 4-8 years to be the CinC. Just adding another candidate to the pool probably won’t fix that.
 
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BigRed389

Registered User
None
I think the point was that arguably, Trump conducted a hostile takeover of the GOP in 2016.
Fair enough, but Sanders almost did the same to the DNC in 2016 as well.
Both parties seems to have been pushing more and more their extremes, and if it hadn't been for COVID craziness pushing voters to lean more towards "stable" over "radical reform", I wouldn't have been surprised to see him make a strong push this year as well.

I wanted to see a Trump vs Bernie race, just for shits and giggles.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Polling indicates we have a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 split in Red, Blue, and Independent. 1/3 of Americans are effectively disenfranchised as I see it, as the primary system ensures they get nothing but the good old “Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich” choice in voting.
That's the fault of those 1/3 of voters. Prioritize the issues that are important to you and pick a side so you can actually participate in primary elections and have a voice. A Republican in NY or CA has much more voting power in the primary to put up a candidate who has a chance of winning swing states than voting in the general election. Ditto for Democrats in red states.

Additionally - and I'm sure you know this - those people also need to understand that their primary voice in the federal government is supposed to be their house representative.

Hillary was actually a pretty centrist candidate. She was just also supremely dislikeable.
Hillary is very left. She just happens to be a foreign policy hawk, which can make her seem moderate. She's unlike able because she's an extreme opportunist, doing and saying anything that will advance her career.

I think it’s more problematic that in the entire country we struggle to find a decent, intelligent charismatic person willing to subject themselves to the election process once every 4-8 years to be the CinC. Just adding another candidate to the pool probably won’t fix that.
Obama was President just 4 years ago.

Both parties seems to have been pushing more and more their extremes, and if it hadn't been for COVID craziness pushing voters to lean more towards "stable" over "radical reform", I wouldn't have been surprised to see him make a strong push this year as well.
I disagree with this. The last few GOP candidates or presidents going back to the 90s: Bush Sr, Dole, Bush Jr, McCain, Romney, Trump. Dems: Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Clinton, Biden.

I'm not seeing any tendency toward extremism there. What happened with Bernie is what usually happens with one issue fringe candidates - the issue gets absorbed by someone more centrist and better suited to govern.

What I do see is that nominating someone over 70 because it's 'their turn' doesn't work (Dole, McCain, Hillary). Need to stay young and charismatic, and for that reason I think that Biden is going to lose.

The GOP tends to put up moderate candidates to unseat incumbents, and Dems tend to put up further left candidates (Romney was practically a Democrat and Kerry is pretty liberal). Neither strategy works. When someone is running for reelection, it's their presidency to lose.
 
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Hair Warrior

New Member
That's the fault of those 1/3 of voters. Prioritize the issues that are important to you and pick a side so you can actually participate in primary elections and have a voice. A Republican in NY or CA has much more voting power in the primary to put up a candidate who has a chance of winning swing states than voting in the general election. Ditto for Democrats in red states.
Well, ok, but that is actually the cop-out, to just pick a side. And in agreement with you, that’s probably the rational decision to make- just pick a party. And as discussed above, the single member district certainly reinforces a two party system.

But the harder, more disciplined path is the Ross Perot-Jesse Ventura way. I am not sure how much Americans (outside of Iowa & New Hampshire) understand what goes on at the grassroots level. There are cities and counties across America where people show up one night a week, or one night a month, to drink coffee or lemonade and talk about their local GOP/Dem precinct and county party. They talk about the issues. They talk about next school board elections. They pick people to volunteer to be polling precinct monitors. They make phone calls or stuff envelopes or just let a new candidate for city council or whatever speak to the group. They do this all. the. time. For decades. And they create this huge apparatus over time of people, of money, and of data.

So, all that to say, a legit 3rd party can do that. But it takes a ton of investment of money and of frankly boring activities most people consider a waste of time. And if you never win elections, it’s absolutely a waste of time. Ross Perot kind of circumvented this process by self funding his run, and earning >5% in the general election. By doing so, he secured federal funding for candidates of his same new party (which is a huge deal) on all down-ballot races for the next 4 years, and this allowed Jesse Ventura to win a gubernatorial race within that window. But they didn’t follow it up with all the boring work described above to make it viable long term/ nationwide. Without all that boring behind the scenes stuff, you don’t have a strong or long-lived third party. And because of single member districts, you very quickly have to choose if you’re going to be center left or center right, because you are going to start pissing off the two established parties by eroding their voter base and ensuring the opposition wins the race. Since there is no “center base” your supporters are going to be inclined to split off and vote Dem or GOP at the last minute if they don’t think the center candidate can win.

And overlaid on top of all that, there are some policy issues that are just dealbreakers for people. Pro life / pro choice. Gun control. Those ones can potentially implode your third party before it even gets going.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
What I do see is that nominating someone over 70 because it's 'their turn' doesn't work (Dole, McCain, Hillary). Need to stay young and charismatic, and for that reason I think that Biden is going to lose.
Trump is a year older than Hillary
 
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