Pro-Rec'd for SNFO, but I have a rather interesting case and need all the gouge I can get, please.

[SkysTheLimit]

Hello all,

I pray for as much gouge as possible. What I'm about to mention has been mentioned numerous times throughout this site. However, I have yet to come across one that is exactly similar to my case. That is why I would like to post it here and see what you all have to say. Although this post might be rather long to read, any and all help is going to be greatly appreciated, and I will be forever grateful!!

Here is the story:

I submitted my package for this past board (Aug. 2 and Aug. 4 for OCS and Pilot/NFO board respectively). After meeting with my recruiter for the first time back in early February this year, I mentioned to her that I ONLY wanted to put pilot on my application. Fast forward to right after I took the ASTB when we put everything together to submit (My ASTB scores were 50 6/7/7). I had many papers to sign (as everyone did), yet the one paper I was NOT shown period was the paper listing my designation choices (this might have been where I messed up by not asking to see it and not remembering to ask, but I thought nothing of it specifically in light of the fact that she knew EXACTLY what I wanted on my application). Everything got signed and sent, and everything landed at NRC in time for the boards. Fast forward again to getting the phone call after this long wait, literally yesterday, only to tell me that I didn't get selected for SNA, but I did for SNFO. Now, why in the world would that be if I only had SNA on my app? Because it wasn't the only thing on my app, and my recruiter said she's "not sure how NFO landed on the application", that she "can definitely tell the disappointment considering she knows I only wanted pilot", and that she "takes full responsibility for this hiccup". She even went as far as to say that she was "shocked I didn't get picked up with how strong my package was". All of this seems bogus to me, but I digress. This now leads me to the problem I'm facing...

My dream has and always will be to be in the driver seat. Being a stick monkey is EXACTLY what I've always wanted. After having gone through FAA flight training, achieved my PPL, and tacked on nearly 100 flight hours (along with an absolute multitude of other reasons specifically named on my motivation statement and elsewhere), I have known flying and being a pilot at the same time is where I want to be and would be the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. Here's the problem, however, and the point where you all will hopefully come in to the rescue. Did I get selected to be a Naval Officer and Naval Flight Officer? Yes. Did I get selected for something literally second to being a pilot? Yes. Do I still get to be in the aircraft? Absolutely. However, like many others have stated before me, that's not entirely what their dream entailed. Controlling the plan is. Don't get me wrong, becoming a Naval Officer in general is an absolutely prestigious accolade and something that all those who achieve it should be proud of. The fact that I was pro-rec'd for SNFO is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around, because it signifies that I made it. However, I am almost certain that I didn't get selected for SNA due to the fact that my recruiter somehow added NFO to my application, and from what I've gathered, if you don't put only one designation, chances are, they will select you for the other choices since EVERYBODY wants to be a pilot. To add to the problem, buddies of mine who are pilots/NFOs have said that I'm now in a sticky situation, because if I turn this down in hopes of applying solely for SNA, they will laugh and possibly DNR me due to the fact that Big Navy will see the turn down as a large middle finger and won't even bother giving me a second look next time, so now I'll be sitting here sucking on my thumb wondering why I didn't take the SNFO spot to begin with. This is also why I'm pissed off, because had my recruiter NOT put NFO on my app the first time, I could just resubmit, but now I don't know, which is even more gouge I hope to gain from this extremely lengthy post. I've seen/heard that it's possible to lateral transfer from NFO-to-pilot, but those seem to be slim regardless of how many times I've heard of it happening. I've also heard it can happen during API or even before OCS.

What I hope to gather from all of this is what should I do, how do I go about this (such as how to put in or ask for a transfer, what to ask my recruiter from here, etc.), and what is everyone's educated opinions on landing my dream from here?

The last thing I would want is to turn this down, not get picked up for anything else, and miss out on a tremendous opportunity to serve my country and wear the uniform as an officer in the Navy.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and all help is, without a doubt, greatly and ultimately appreciated!!

 

[Ghost SWO]

Hello all,

I pray for as much gouge as possible. What I'm about to mention has been mentioned numerous times throughout this site. However, I have yet to come across one that is exactly similar to my case. That is why I would like to post it here and see what you all have to say. Although this post might be rather long to read, any and all help is going to be greatly appreciated, and I will be forever grateful!!

Here is the story:

I submitted my package for this past board (Aug. 2 and Aug. 4 for OCS and Pilot/NFO board respectively). After meeting with my recruiter for the first time back in early February this year, I mentioned to her that I ONLY wanted to put pilot on my application. Fast forward to right after I took the ASTB when we put everything together to submit (My ASTB scores were 50 6/7/7). I had many papers to sign (as everyone did), yet the one paper I was NOT shown period was the paper listing my designation choices (this might have been where I messed up by not asking to see it and not remembering to ask, but I thought nothing of it specifically in light of the fact that she knew EXACTLY what I wanted on my application). Everything got signed and sent, and everything landed at NRC in time for the boards. Fast forward again to getting the phone call after this long wait, literally yesterday, only to tell me that I didn't get selected for SNA, but I did for SNFO. Now, why in the world would that be if I only had SNA on my app? Because it wasn't the only thing on my app, and my recruiter said she's "not sure how NFO landed on the application", that she "can definitely tell the disappointment considering she knows I only wanted pilot", and that she "takes full responsibility for this hiccup". She even went as far as to say that she was "shocked I didn't get picked up with how strong my package was". All of this seems bogus to me, but I digress. This now leads me to the problem I'm facing...

My dream has and always will be to be in the driver seat. Being a stick monkey is EXACTLY what I've always wanted. After having gone through FAA flight training, achieved my PPL, and tacked on nearly 100 flight hours (along with an absolute multitude of other reasons specifically named on my motivation statement and elsewhere), I have known flying and being a pilot at the same time is where I want to be and would be the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. Here's the problem, however, and the point where you all will hopefully come in to the rescue. Did I get selected to be a Naval Officer and Naval Flight Officer? Yes. Did I get selected for something literally second to being a pilot? Yes. Do I still get to be in the aircraft? Absolutely. However, like many others have stated before me, that's not entirely what their dream entailed. Controlling the plan is. Don't get me wrong, becoming a Naval Officer in general is an absolutely prestigious accolade and something that all those who achieve it should be proud of. The fact that I was pro-rec'd for SNFO is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around, because it signifies that I made it. However, I am almost certain that I didn't get selected for SNA due to the fact that my recruiter somehow added NFO to my application, and from what I've gathered, if you don't put only one designation, chances are, they will select you for the other choices since EVERYBODY wants to be a pilot. To add to the problem, buddies of mine who are pilots/NFOs have said that I'm now in a sticky situation, because if I turn this down in hopes of applying solely for SNA, they will laugh and possibly DNR me due to the fact that Big Navy will see the turn down as a large middle finger and won't even bother giving me a second look next time, so now I'll be sitting here sucking on my thumb wondering why I didn't take the SNFO spot to begin with. This is also why I'm pissed off, because had my recruiter NOT put NFO on my app the first time, I could just resubmit, but now I don't know, which is even more gouge I hope to gain from this extremely lengthy post. I've seen/heard that it's possible to lateral transfer from NFO-to-pilot, but those seem to be slim regardless of how many times I've heard of it happening. I've also heard it can happen during API or even before OCS.

What I hope to gather from all of this is what should I do, how do I go about this (such as how to put in or ask for a transfer, what to ask my recruiter from here, etc.), and what is everyone's educated opinions on landing my dream from here?

The last thing I would want is to turn this down, not get picked up for anything else, and miss out on a tremendous opportunity to serve my country and wear the uniform as an officer in the Navy.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and all help is, without a doubt, greatly and ultimately appreciated!!

This exact thing happened to someone on the August 2020 board. They applied for the next board and were selected for the designator they wanted. It's not impossible, and it's been done before.

You know what you want at the end of the day, if you need to turn NFO down and go for what you really want then that's worth it IMO. Don't accept something you're going to regret.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

You can reject NFO, try for SNA, your scores are ok, so for you it could be worth a shot especially if you don't want to be an NFO and that is your choice.

In your statement you will need to explain exactly what has happened and that will probably include throwing your OR under the bus, and I have not problem with that considering they probably put down NFO without your knowledge, so maybe they do need to be thrown under the bus and then have it backed up over them again.

 

[BOMR822]

This actually happened to me last year when I applied, similar scores. It is actually kind of weird how similar my experience was to yours. I applied for SNA only (very explicitly asked for this), and somehow got NFO. Recruiter also said they were unsure how it happened. My recruiter discouraged me to try to reapply to SNA, but I was insistent. I got SNA the next board and everything went smoothly from there. I think it was an honest mistake on my recruiter's part, but it did make me nervous I would get a DNR. If you have any questions, dm me. You seem to have the exact same issue I had.

 

[Mike Leach's Air Raid]

My two cents: I would try to talk to someone higher up. It’s a shame your recruiter made that blunder. I was DQ’d out of my SNA slot at OCS, and while being an NFO is great, it’s not a pilot. I sit at a desk in the tube of a P8… it’s not the same. I remember hearing the same “you’re a Naval Officer first, blah blah blah” but if you want to be a pilot, be a pilot. Don’t feel guilty for going after exactly what you want. We didn’t have full ride ROTC scholarships. We paid our way and now we get to choose which career we apply for. Go after what you want, and I hope everything works out for you.

 

[Griz882]

Like the young man seen below keep swinging…there is more than one person at the dance. If the pretty one turns you down you the others get better looking!

 

[SkysTheLimit]

Wow, this is quite a bit of solid info, and thank you all!! After taking a whole day to look over everything, I noticed there were some critical pieces of information that I had forgotten to mention in my initial post that will help in the gouge that I receive due to these factors.

1. My GPA is a 2.9 (this is according to the recruiter, so I'm not entirely sure of the accuracy, because I thought it was actually lower, but I'll take the 2.9 if it is true). The people who got SNA this time all had 3.0 or higher, and those who didn't had 8s or higher on their ASTB where mine was 50 6/7/7.

2. I am 30 years of age, and my birthday is on May 12, so I'd have to be commissioned before May 12 of 2023 when I turn 32. I'm not sure this played a factor in the decision process, but I'm wondering if it would play a role if I decided to turn down the NFO spot in hopes of resubmitting for SNA only.

3. I had 2 corrective PRK eye surgeries, so I wonder if my pre-op limits fell outside the limitations for SNA, so they just chose NFO. Again, I don't know if this might have been a factor, but I surely wouldn't want to reapply to find out I didn't get accepted perhaps due to this.

4. My bachelor's degree is in Communications. My recruiter was telling me that the people who got picked up for SNA this go round all had technical degrees or some form of science degree. This might also hurt my chances at a resubmission.

All these things considered, perhaps you all will be willing to update the info based on this new bit, unless of course nothing does change due to this. Again, any and all help is greatly appreciated, and all the help thus far is something I'm forever grateful for!!

 

[SkysTheLimit]

To @Ghost SWO, @exNavyOffRec, and @Mike Leach's Air Raid, all of you mentioned turning down NFO if I know it's not what I actually want, and I wanted to mention this to see if it helps or changes each of your outlooks on this matter. I have always said that I wanted to be a pilot, bar none, without a doubt, no questions asked. IF, however, I got NPQ'd, Nami-Whammied, or something else that got me redesignated to NFO down the road, I've always said it wouldn't be the end of the world, because at least I had the opportunity to try for SNA and got physically redesignated or something else. What makes this different to me is the fact that I didn't get SNA from the get go, which makes all the "what-ifs" start jumping into my head (and I'm trying not to think about it that way). The last thing I would want is to turn down the NFO spot in hopes of resubmitting for SNA only, not get picked up for anything, get slapped with a DNR, and now I'm sitting in bar somewhere saying "well, I could've been a Naval Officer/Flight Officer, but...". To me, it would be worse to not have anything at all, wishing I did, versus having a passenger seat on a military aircraft, because it's at least still there. I just know it's not my first choice, hence why ONLY putting SNA was explicitly discussed with my recruiter, and being screwed over from the jump is where my issue is with all this.

Any more input you guys have from this extra info is greatly appreciated, and thank you all again!!

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Wow, this is quite a bit of solid info, and thank you all!! After taking a whole day to look over everything, I noticed there were some critical pieces of information that I had forgotten to mention in my initial post that will help in the gouge that I receive due to these factors.

1. My GPA is a 2.9 (this is according to the recruiter, so I'm not entirely sure of the accuracy, because I thought it was actually lower, but I'll take the 2.9 if it is true). The people who got SNA this time all had 3.0 or higher, and those who didn't had 8s or higher on their ASTB where mine was 50 6/7/7.

2. I am 30 years of age, and my birthday is on May 12, so I'd have to be commissioned before May 12 of 2023 when I turn 32. I'm not sure this played a factor in the decision process, but I'm wondering if it would play a role if I decided to turn down the NFO spot in hopes of resubmitting for SNA only.

3. I had 2 corrective PRK eye surgeries, so I wonder if my pre-op limits fell outside the limitations for SNA, so they just chose NFO. Again, I don't know if this might have been a factor, but I surely wouldn't want to reapply to find out I didn't get accepted perhaps due to this.

4. My bachelor's degree is in Communications. My recruiter was telling me that the people who got picked up for SNA this go round all had technical degrees or some form of science degree. This might also hurt my chances at a resubmission.

All these things considered, perhaps you all will be willing to update the info based on this new bit, unless of course nothing does change due to this. Again, any and all help is greatly appreciated, and all the help thus far is something I'm forever grateful for!!

1. not really correct.

2. it probably didn't as you aren't close to the limit, close is inside a year.

3. what was the pre op diopter limit?

4. nope not true, just look at the sheet guys were picked up with Econ, Media, Business and other degrees for SNA

It is a big of a crapshoot for sure but if you won't be happy with SNA you need to figure out what to do.

 

[SkysTheLimit]

1. not really correct.

2. it probably didn't as you aren't close to the limit, close is inside a year.

3. what was the pre op diopter limit?

4. nope not true, just look at the sheet guys were picked up with Econ, Media, Business and other degrees for SNA

It is a big of a crapshoot for sure but if you won't be happy with SNA you need to figure out what to do.

1. Please elaborate on this, because given my 2.9 (IF that’s even correct, because I thought it was honestly even lower than that when I checked on everything), my recruiter (who has proven to not have told the truth at this point) told me that people got picked up for SNA with 3.0 or higher.

2. I pray it didn’t, because I was thinking that maybe they thought I’m on the older side, so they’d rather spend their money on someone younger.

3. I attached files at the bottom. There are 4 pages, because 2 of the 4 are the OD and OS for one procedure (I had 2 procedures), so there are the pre-op for both procedures.

4. When you say sheet, where is this sheet? The only thing I saw had people’s names, whether or not they got picked up for anything, and when their OCS date was. Also, my degree is in Communication Studies, so I’m not sure if they consider that “basket-weaving” or not.

Do you mean not happy with NFO? I know I’d be happy with something rather than nothing, but being a pilot is, and always has been, the dream and the ultimate goal.

P.S. I sent you a dm. I just wanted to let you know if you haven’t seen it yet. It’s got some more questions about how to talk to the recruiter, what to say on the letter if I turned it down, etc.

Thank you for your time!

 

[cfam]

I deleted the attachments because they have PII in them. Feel free to send them directly to him via PM if you want, but please don’t post them.

 

[SkysTheLimit]

I deleted the attachments because they have PII in them. Feel free to send them directly to him via PM if you want, but please don’t post them.

Sure thing, my apologies!

 

[SkysTheLimit]

I deleted the attachments because they have PII in them. Feel free to send them directly to him via PM if you want, but please don’t post them.

Out of curiosity, do you have any personal insight on my case? I noticed your wings and thought I'd ask.

 

[luckynumbr27]

This is the sheet @exNavyOffRec is talking about. It isn’t everyone that was at the August pilot/NFO board, but it is a large sample of airwarriors packages and he is right about the various degrees everyone had.

02 AUG 21 Pilot/NFO Board

Selection List FinSel,ProRec Y,ProRec N,Submitted,Declined,Pushed,Application Due (Hard),25 Jun 2021,Board Date,2 Aug 21,Est. Results,September-October,At Board: At Board - Y,At Board - N,Application Due (Soft),Actual Board,4 Aug 21,Actual Results,13 Aug 2021 (!!!),Total Board:,Excel # SNAs,At: ...

docs.google.com

 

[flgator92]

There could've been a bunch of reasons why you got picked up for SNFO instead of SNA. Not wanting to speculate as to exactly what happened, the reality is you got picked up for the SNFO pipeline. So, you have two options: First, you could tell your recruiter you'd like to reapply for SNA; or, second, you could take the SNFO slot and enjoy your life. The first option has its own issues because you'd have to pass up your SNFO pro-rec and, assuming you reapply for SNA on another board and don't get picked up, my understanding is that you're sort of out of options for serving in Naval Aviation in any capacity. The second option downside is you take the SNFO slot when you wanted SNA and, sure, you wouldn't be a Navy pilot. Still a real cool designator, however, particularly on the pointy-nose side. Speaking as someone who is just a few events from finishing the SNFO strike-fighter syllabus, myself and many others in the NFO community- students and instructors- have our PPL. The Navy, frankly, doesn't really care because regardless of your civilian flight hours and ratings, you're still going to have to complete the Navy syllabus regardless of pipeline. And, regardless of civilian flight hours, it'll still be challenging at some point. It is for everyone. So those are essentially your two options. Think about it and choose wisely because both have potential pitfalls.