Pipline selection between navy and AF

[borinf2d]

I already used the search function and I tried again. I'm still not finding quite what I was looking for. Southern AG said: " they dont understand how naval aviation works. NSS and the acquired knowledge of how to try and work the Navy system are foreign to Air force types, and they wont know, or be able to try, and go to bat for you when selection rolls around. Also, from a flying perspective, while at vance you acquire certain habits that will be a detriment to you when you leave and return to navy advanced"

I'm well aware vance sucks(from what I read, no personal experience), But with such different training styles, aircraft, and instructors How are things leveled out for the grading for Navy pipeline selection? What does goin to bat at selection mean? Does your instructor have any input in your selection?

 

[zab1001]

Please keep this thread in line with it's intent.

 

[zab1001]

From jai5w4

"Vance Gouge

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Had this conversation with the CO of my squadron here at Vance just over a week ago. He's a USN 0-5 and is in charge of an Air Force training squadron. We were all anxious to hear what he had to say about the REAL way things happened around here. Not a knock against AW or anything, but I've learned a lot since moving here and very little to none of it is what I heard on this board. A LOT of rumors out there.

Prior to making the decision (and even after) you'll hear a lot of hodge podge about Vance and the Air Force and their effed-up ways. Don't buy it. The system has been around long enough (e.g. enough USN/USMC types have been through Primary here) that they (the AF training command) has it narrowed down to almost a science. I can't speak for the past, but I am fully confident that the education I am recieving is not putting me at a disadvantage, and in some respects, I feel more priveledged to be here.

That being said, it is an Air Force base and things are done more their way. Mustering certain ways and 12-hour days can be a real thing. But they get the job done just as the Navy does at their training squadrons. I had a former CO that said of the AF, "They are niether better nor worse, merely different." Couldn't agree more.

As for the grades, the USN/USMC types have certain portions of the syllabus that are more heavily waited than other portions; emphasizing what it is we will be put up against in the Navy side of the house upon departure from here (e.g. AOA approaches, on-speed/glide slope landings and slow speed handling, not to mention instruments).

Upon completing your last flight here at Vance you are ranked against the last 60 USN/USMC primary grads coming out of here. This levels the playing field for any crazies giving out rediculously good/bad grades at an abnormal rate. This is the calculation that determines your NSS. After this ranking, you are placed against your peers from Whiting and Corpus, which is the ranking that puts you in the running for one platform or another.

Hope that clears things up a bit for you; if not, hit me back and I'll do my best.

Regards,

-jai5w4

 

[borinf2d]

Exactly what I was interested in! Thanks.

 

[bunk22]

I saw down with the Commodore of TW-5 last week and we spoke about this. The ultimate goal is to get rid of the NSS and use the AF system. The AF grading system makes it difficult to convert to a NSS.

 

[gregsivers]

I saw down with the Commodore of TW-5 last week and we spoke about this. The ultimate goal is to get rid of the NSS and use the AF system. The AF grading system makes it difficult to convert to a NSS.

Is it still Maloney? I lived next door to him while I was at Whiting.

 

[Gatordev]

Something else to keep in mind is that each swquadron will get points added or taken away based on their average compared to the other wings. So even if AF wing 8 (or whatever they call themselves) has a low average NSS for it's USN/USMC studs, they'll get some points thrown their way to make it up. This happens w/ each TW-4 and TW-5 squadron every week. If one squadron has a bunch of Santa Clauses, they'll have some points removed to even them out w/ the other 4 squadrons.

 

[scoober78]

Bad system

The Air Force, or the way they select?

 

[e6bflyer]

If the Navy moves to the AF system it would be terrible.
The Navy system is based on individual flights counting equally as well as some ground school. If you are motivated the command will recommend you for what you want, but if you do not have thr grades it can only help so much

THe problem with the AF is that XX% of your final "grade" is based on checkrides and yy% is based on flight commander ranking...basically it boils down to 2 flights and if you are liked or not...the individual flights do not have the same amount of weight...so basically you can suck and rock out your checkrides and you are good as long as your flight commander thinks you are professional and try hard......Bad system.

For once, Rand, we agree. I don't remember the exact number, but something like 75% of your final grade is based on 3 flights, and then another portion is based on what one person thinks of you. I had a high 50's NSS in primary, had similar performance in T-1's at Vance, and ended up in the bottom third of my class due to tanking one checkride. I didn't care at that point, because I had already selected my final platform, but it just left me scratching my head and doubting my abilities.
Also, the AF checkride is way different than a Navy TRACOM checkride. You fly with a "special" cadre of instructors that work in "check flight". These IP's don't usually fly daily flights with students, just checkrides. These flights are not instructional at all. For example, if you do something wrong, it isn't "lets try that one again", it is the silent treatment until the very end of the 2 hour debrief when you get to hear that "you set the wrong bug speed for X maneuver, so you unsat the ride". It doesn't matter if the rest of the ride was spectacular. Again, just their way of doing things, but I must say that I prefer the Navy's method.

 

[Gatordev]

So, just for the sake of full disclosure... You guys are talking about advanced. Does anyone know for sure if Primary works the same way? Just want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples. Regardless, the AF apples that you describe are really stupid.

 

[e6bflyer]

Yes, my experience is strictly with advanced or "phase III" in Chair Force language.

 

[skotc9]

none of your sims count towards your grades. they say that each flight is weighted equally. having gone through there i can tell you that it is impossible to figure out how their grading system really works, but it does work. as for bad habits and being out of navy training...the transition to advanced has not been hard at all. i have never felt that i was at a disadvantage for having gone through vance. except that it sucks ass out there.

 

[llnick2001]

So, just for the sake of full disclosure... You guys are talking about advanced. Does anyone know for sure if Primary works the same way? Just want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples. Regardless, the AF apples that you describe are really stupid.

Primary is the same way for them.