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PC Shenanigans At Recent Softpatching

Boom2

New Member
pilot
Has anyone noticed the change in softpatch ceremonies at TAW-5 in recent weeks, the last one I attended before today was a lot of fun, I saw nothing offensive or inappropriate, sure a few studs got their wings punched on a little solid but I saw nothing wrong with it. Then today, all the IP's seemed to be walking on eggshells with both their comments and the actual softpatching. Does anyone know the history of punching the patch on or the reason for the current change? Personally, today looked like politically correctness running wild, I hope the next one is not the same.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I don't know about this one, but usually the families are fully supportive of punching. I was STUCON at -18 for awhile. Everyone was cool with nice little taps for both wingings. Then some dad headbutts his kid's wings in so hard they were bent into a "V" shape. The CO was not amused with it. After that, we had to brief the studs on what to brief their families.

Me, I'm all about light punches just to complete the ceremony, whether it's a promotion or a winging or whatever. However, I still haven't had to do a ceremony where I had to pin insignia on a woman. Is it more un-PC to not treat everyone the same and NOT hit her; or am I supposed to hit her in the tit for the sake of equality?
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I always liked the sailor traditions of blood wings, punching on the crow wogs to shellbacks etc. Oh well. Must be a kinder gentler navy.
Yeah, those "traditions" ended up with sailors and airmen dead or severely injured due to other sailors saying it was no big deal, a rite of passage, and a tradition. We don't haze, and it is a slippery slope that gets blurred very quickly. A simple punching on now can turn in time, and over beers into something drastically else. A tradition that requires you to inflict damage on a shipmate, such as the bloody wings you mentioned, is not one that you as an Officer should encourage nor condone. The 18 year old that qualifies for his first warfare pin WANTS validation and acceptance into his group of peers. As leaders, we need to ensure that hazing is not a part of that acceptance.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Yeah, those "traditions" ended up with sailors and airmen dead or severely injured due to other sailors saying it was no big deal, a rite of passage, and a tradition. We don't haze, and it is a slippery slope that gets blurred very quickly. A tradition that requires you to inflict damage on a shipmate, such as the bloody wings you mentioned, is not one that you as an Officer should encourage nor condone. The 18 year old that qualifies for his first warfare pin WANTS validation and acceptance into his group of peers. As leaders, we need to ensure that hazing is not a part of that acceptance.

I understand. My post in general came across in a way that sounded nothing like what I was trying to say, hence my deletion.

A firm punch is what I have in mind, but I can easily see it getting out of hand and getting violent. Kind of like as a kid getting birthday hits. It's just a right of passage thing, that is NOT supposed to be violent or in any way damaging.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
^ Agree w/ Websan for two reasons:

(1) 'cause I like to suck up to the Websan and

(2) we JUST DIDN'T DO THAT STUFF -- "blood Winging" IN MY DAY .... we did, however, throw newly minted NA's and the occasional wifey (if she got too close) into the pool .... :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

Were we wrong .... ???
:icon_cryi
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
You have gone FULL HINGE!!!!! :eek:
No, I was a sailor that went through that era with both my enlisted warfare qualifications. And have seen and heard over the years where hazing has gone completely wrong. ENS through LCDR, all the way to the CNO, we do not condone hazing as Officers. Leadership 101 ppl. If you don't like, find another line of work.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
A firm punch is what I have in mind, but I can easily see it getting out of hand and getting violent. Kind of like as a kid getting birthday hits. It's just a right of passage thing, that is NOT supposed to be violent or in any way damaging.

I have to agree with Webmaster and A4s :)eek:) too. Having graduated from a military school that was still in a 'transition' period from an era of some pretty brutal hazing, I saw several instances of where guys took what was a 'fun' thing and ruined it by taking it way too far. While some traditions are good and even fun you always have to keep in mind what the purpose is and why you do it. And face it, in an age of instant communications and camera phones we have to be more careful than ever.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I have to agree with Webmaster and A4s :)eek:) too. Having graduated from a military school that was still in a 'transition' period from an era of some pretty brutal hazing, I saw several instances of where guys took what was a 'fun' thing and ruined it by taking it way too far. While some traditions are good and even fun you always have to keep in mind what the purpose is and why you do it. And face it, in an age of instant communications and camera phones we have to be more careful than ever.


Well I guess I've been put in my place. I'll go back to my ENS hole now. Hazing = wrong and punching the wings is a slippery slope.

Seriously, not being sarcastic here.
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Otto, no harm, no foul. Learning has occurred as they say. Some of us went through that period, and are a little more familiar with why it is/was such a hot topic. I was more concerned with the topic at large, and ensuring there was no misunderstanding with what we as leaders put out.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I'll dissent, slightly. A little punch on the wings ain't going to hurt anyone. Don't leave the backings off the prongs, don't wind up like Mohammud Ali, just give a little slug. Sometimes slopes are slippery, sometimes they aren't. Knowing the difference is part of leadership, too. Just 'cause you shake a man's hand doesn't mean you're going to be tongue-kissing later--unless you're Otto.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I'll dissent, slightly. A little punch on the wings ain't going to hurt anyone. Don't leave the backings off the prongs, don't wind up like Mohammud Ali, just give a little slug. Sometimes slopes are slippery, sometimes they aren't. Knowing the difference is part of leadership, too. Just 'cause you shake a man's hand doesn't mean you're going to be tongue-kissing later--unless you're Otto.

Hey hey hey. You get drunk ONE time at seville, and all of a sudden.... :D
 

Mumbles

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
I have to agree with Webmaster and A4s :)eek:) too. Having graduated from a military school that was still in a 'transition' period from an era of some pretty brutal hazing, I saw several instances of where guys took what was a 'fun' thing and ruined it by taking it way too far. While some traditions are good and even fun you always have to keep in mind what the purpose is and why you do it. And face it, in an age of instant communications and camera phones we have to be more careful than ever.

Flash...

having met you, I still can't believe that you're one of the "Lords of Discipline"..
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
OK . . . hold it. Getting bloodwinged is hazing and wrong on many, many levels. Obviously. But hitting someone lightly on the patch when they get softwinged was commonplace when I went through Meridian. Don't tell me THAT tradition is going away.

I was proud as hell to get soft-winged after my last flight in Advanced, and I certainly didn't consider it hazing to have an IP give me a whack on my new nametag. Every time was just a reminder I'd "made it." No one took it to extremes. The one social retard who damn near knocked me halfway across the ready room when no one else was looking, well, that pissed me off. But that was the glaring exception to the rule.

That said, if word has come down from on high, this thread is meaningless as my opinion and the proper response is a salute and "Aye, aye sir/ma'am."
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
....But hitting someone lightly on the patch when they get softwinged was commonplace when I went through Meridian. Don't tell me THAT tradition is going away......No one took it to extremes. The one social retard who damn near knocked me halfway across the ready room when no one else was looking, well, that pissed me off. But that was the glaring exception to the rule.

You just hit the nail on the head, especially when those 'glaring exceptions' do become the rule. The guys who did screw it up for everyone usually were idiots/social retards, and like so many times before everyone had pay. It happens way too often, but it does happen.

Flash...

having met you, I still can't believe that you're one of the "Lords of Discipline"..

People usually are very surprised when I tell them where I went to school, even after knowing me a while. I always figured it was because I had all my teeth, but who knows? ;)
 
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