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No sleep + flying = bad
- Thread starter Road Program
- Start date
They're sending them to IA positions (Iraq, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, etc.) The reasoning is that instead of taking a trained war fighter from a squadron, they'll take someone that otherwise would be a waste of time and money. It started earlier this year when 04 types were DORing before they even started flight training. One guy that DORed, for example, wrote in his letter that he wished to DOR "from the Navy," not just from flight training. He went on to say that he didn't want the Navy to be able to tell him where he would have to live or where he would have to go for the next 8 years. It got under the skin of some of the peolpe at BUPERS, so they hooked him up.
It was my understanding that they weren't doing it to too many people, mostly those who were trying to work the system.
For those who are curious, I got the inside scoop on this because I was stashed at BUPERS for a while.
It was my understanding that they weren't doing it to too many people, mostly those who were trying to work the system.
For those who are curious, I got the inside scoop on this because I was stashed at BUPERS for a while.
Fezz CB said:
They were doing that to Academy SNAs who DOR'd before API last year. The first guy was sent to Liberia to be a PAO. Upon arriving, the OIC found out that a) He didn't have a TS clearance. b) He didn't know sh!t about being a PAO. He was promptly sent back and the CO of schools command was told to stop sending DORs overseas. So the rest, like the ROTC and OCS DORs, were sent IRR.
Red2 said:
Like I said, they are useful as tits on a boar hog. I understand not wanting a guy with 4 years of free college to just walk. Rubs me wrong too. But if we are going to hang on to these guys (as they did in my day), then train them and give them a proper job, no matter how sh!tty.
Been there, in flight
It wasn't called ORM back in the day. But we were expected to not fly distracted, tired or sick. I failed to meet that expectation once. When I was in VT-86 I had four very close firends (two in each plane) killed in a civilian mid air back home. The command was great. Took me off the flight sked on a Thursday and told me to tell them when I was ready to go again. Then they diverted a planned T-39 x-c to take me to an AFB near my home. I spent the weekend at funerals and meeting with grieving friends and parents. When I got back to Pcola I was on the sked. I decided to John Wayne it and flew the mission. I hadn't studied or prepared over the weekend and flying is no way to forget a fatal aircraft mishap. Little went well. I got a down. I had to go see the LT class advisor and the Ops O (Marine Maj). Ops asked what I was doing flying. He said that he didn't intend for me to be on the sked. It was a mistake as he was waiting to hear from me. In the end they said there would be no opportunity for a refly but not because I deserved the grades for my uncharateristic peformance, but I deserved a down for piss poor headwork. I earned the down the minute I stepped into the cockpit because my head wasn't in the game. I have never forgotten that, never will.
squorch2 said:
It wasn't called ORM back in the day. But we were expected to not fly distracted, tired or sick. I failed to meet that expectation once. When I was in VT-86 I had four very close firends (two in each plane) killed in a civilian mid air back home. The command was great. Took me off the flight sked on a Thursday and told me to tell them when I was ready to go again. Then they diverted a planned T-39 x-c to take me to an AFB near my home. I spent the weekend at funerals and meeting with grieving friends and parents. When I got back to Pcola I was on the sked. I decided to John Wayne it and flew the mission. I hadn't studied or prepared over the weekend and flying is no way to forget a fatal aircraft mishap. Little went well. I got a down. I had to go see the LT class advisor and the Ops O (Marine Maj). Ops asked what I was doing flying. He said that he didn't intend for me to be on the sked. It was a mistake as he was waiting to hear from me. In the end they said there would be no opportunity for a refly but not because I deserved the grades for my uncharateristic peformance, but I deserved a down for piss poor headwork. I earned the down the minute I stepped into the cockpit because my head wasn't in the game. I have never forgotten that, never will.
Prashant Patel
Registered User
I thought the IM SAFE checklist and ORM was sometimes a sissy way to get outta flying until it happened to me. With just 4 hours of sleep, I gave the crappiest brief ever. My brain just could not think at all. Nearly got a ready room down. Then I went out and had the crappiest flight in my brief flying career. Constantly off-altitude and off-airspeed, and just couldn't think ahead of the plane. Two lessons I learned the hard way: (1) Get your rest ! The physical and mental toll your body can take will be much better if you're well rested. (2) A bad brief almost always leads to a bad flight. The whole time I was walking out and preflighting the plane, I couldn't think about all the brief items I goofed in the briefing room. These are some very obvious lessons that I think everyone should learn the hard way to understand the consequences.
Jesus guys - just wait until you deploy. Think you won't fly if you are dead a$$ tired? Think again. I remember 2nd week of 8+ hour flying days (that's 2 weeks of 8-10 hours in the cockpit). Copilot and I were so punch drunk tired, we would be pranging landings left and right - we'd land hard on the back of a ship and the crew chief would query us as to what the hell our problem - and we'd be up front laughing because we were so tired.
Night flight - flying from one CV to another during turnover ops in the Med - copilot falls asleep, I keep myslef awake from pinching myself. Not smart. We finally wised up and called it quits when we got to the next deck and spent what was left of the evening (I think it was 0300 at that point) asleep in the HS squadron's ready room.
You'll learn where your limits are when you deploy - and how far not to push those limits.
Is the Navy getting on board with the AIr Force on the use of stimulants for long flights? I thought there was some real progress being made on "fatigue management" for single seat guys - i.e. Doc gives you pill pack of one or two amphetamines, with instructions to take it if you need it as part of a tightly managed program - well monitored. Heard it was very successful.
For crew flown aircraft, coffee is always nice. Get a nice steel thermos.
Night flight - flying from one CV to another during turnover ops in the Med - copilot falls asleep, I keep myslef awake from pinching myself. Not smart. We finally wised up and called it quits when we got to the next deck and spent what was left of the evening (I think it was 0300 at that point) asleep in the HS squadron's ready room.
You'll learn where your limits are when you deploy - and how far not to push those limits.
Is the Navy getting on board with the AIr Force on the use of stimulants for long flights? I thought there was some real progress being made on "fatigue management" for single seat guys - i.e. Doc gives you pill pack of one or two amphetamines, with instructions to take it if you need it as part of a tightly managed program - well monitored. Heard it was very successful.
For crew flown aircraft, coffee is always nice. Get a nice steel thermos.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
We didn't use the "go" pills in Iraq, nor did we use the "no-go" pills. If you were too tired to fly, you were the ODO. Routinely we were flying 6 1/2-7 hours... All on goggles... Averaging 60-70 hour months...