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New helo trainer at Rucker?

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
They do overseas. Did the NDB into Pago Pago when the ILS was down two summers ago.
Not sure if the -53 has ADF, but the rest of the fleet doesn't, so I'd argue my point still stands...that they're not done anymore for helos. Again, with the exception of OTPI, which if done correctly, is a form of an approach (for consistency of data/PLOT STAB), but that's via VHF (as I know you know, HAL).

They can home but they can’t track.
Sadly, I've seen that even with "legacy" Navy pilots who have been through the '50's learning process.

That part of your brain that figures out where everything is around you and what everything is doing just doesn't get challenged. That electronic display then becomes a necessity for you to have just basic SA, rather than a tool to improve your SA from good to great.
I completely agree. But I think there's two arguments here. One for always having a top down view of your position (via panel/iPad) and just using some form of charting with no positional data. I think you can still develop that SA with an iPad, just turn off the GPS for a bit. But I've also made it from Florida to AZ with nothing more than a sectional and a TACAN, so I fully support good pilotage and map reading.
 
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ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Paper charts are a student haze-ex and so wasteful it should be criminal.
Concur! Charts are just physical and visual representations of data. Data. How the data is presented and used in planning and executing any mission and flight is up to your operation and whatever governing body you fly under. Whether its chart data presented on a MFD, FMS database, a Garmin memory card, temporary printed paper, EFB/tablet, etc - and new pilots are learning just fin without reams of DoD FLIPS, JOG's, sectionals, IFR enroute charts, etc.

And EFB tools like Foreflight and FDP, you can select views for your operation that are totally data driven and not raster scans of charts - something that gives far more SA with resepect to terrain, airspace, intersections, navaids, etc.

When you are plugging along VFR what do you want :

23358

or
23359

more clutter does not = more SA. If I need more info from a data element (airport, airspace, obstacle,) I just tap on it. Manage the exceptions.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Also, I can tell you with TH-XX and AHTS, everything at PMA is being rethought - I mean everything. Folks from FlightSafety are involved, truly teaching a flexible but standardized crew concept that will integrate with the whole training system - which in turn will float up to FRS and Model Manager level. At least from what I've heard a lot of briiliant and capable folks are involved. Its just not going to be a rehash of a new aircraft merged with old FTI, MCG, etc. Some eggs will be broken :)
 

SynixMan

Staff Life
pilot
Contributor
Do they still have some version of the old RI simulator app? I remember using that a fair bit to develop my mental map of what the airplane is doing in space wrt the needles.

At the end of the day the needles are a workaround to a moving map not the other way around. The needles represent the best of 40s-60s technology to try and develop a way to represent where the plane is in space. We now have better ways to do that that should be used.
RIOT Trainer? There's a modern version of it. I even think an intrepid Marine SNA rebuilt it for iPhone. But still, wrapping your brain around the needles is tough and entirely non-intuitive. My T-34 RI days were spent trying to translate "Needle bearing + DME + heading = your plane on this chart, if you remembered to tune and ID the right NAVAID and twist in the proper course". I had a lot of patience instructing early block RIs because I remembered how mind bending that stuff is initially. I think the current VT syllabus is fairly balanced though.

@Jim123 Agreed, there's a balance somewhere. We owe every SNA the best training we can give since it's only a matter of time before they roll into shitty weather and rely on those skills. Moving it to the 21st century shouldn't be the hangup.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I'd love to be a fly on the wall during grunt land nav class these days.
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
RIOT Trainer? There's a modern version of it. I even think an intrepid Marine SNA rebuilt it for iPhone.
I flew with that Marine SNA. He was brilliant. He built an App for primary, then one for VTJ, and then built one for the HT's to help out his buddies (in his spare time in Kingsville while going on to become one of the first to select F-35's). He shocked me on an early off-wing fam flight when home field was socked in coming back. He asked if I would let him fly the approach. I asked him if he knew how to load the approach and everything and he said "Yes Sir." Then he proceeded to fly a perfect ILS in the goo. Turns out he'd helped his brother design the T-6 simulator before joining the Corps. He also had a couple hundred hours flying civilian formation and aerobatics. If someone would have told me a student like this existed I don't think I would have believed them. And the best part was he's humble and a good dude.
 

SynixMan

Staff Life
pilot
Contributor
I flew with that Marine SNA. He was brilliant. He built an App for primary, then one for VTJ, and then built one for the HT's to help out his buddies (in his spare time in Kingsville while going on to become one of the first to select F-35's). He shocked me on an early off-wing fam flight when home field was socked in coming back. He asked if I would let him fly the approach. I asked him if he knew how to load the approach and everything and he said "Yes Sir." Then he proceeded to fly a perfect ILS in the goo. Turns out he'd helped his brother design the T-6 simulator before joining the Corps. He also had a couple hundred hours flying civilian formation and aerobatics. If someone would have told me a student like this existed I don't think I would have believed them. And the best part was he's humble and a good dude.
100% This. I was constantly amazed by the overall quality of SNAs once you get beyond the "Where did you go to school?" small talk. As much as we all complain about Big Navy/Big USMC, our replacements are motivated and talented as hell. I hope they have it better than I did.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
You mean that millennials aren’t all snowflake crybabies? Someone please send a memo to everyone in the military over the age of 30.
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
You mean that millennials aren’t all snowflake crybabies? Someone please send a memo to everyone in the military over the age of 30.
I think we're done with millennials as new gains. Millennials are now making O-5. Generation Z starts for kids born in 97 so they'll be 22 and graduating starting this year! Begin panicking about something new! But now the millennials can be included in the ranks of those griping about those whipper snappers.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Now we need to watch out for those whippersnappers staring at their phones as they wander into spinning propellers.

(And their whippersnapper friends who film it and post the video...)
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
Now we need to watch out for those whippersnappers staring at their phones as they wander into spinning propellers.

(And their whippersnapper friends who film it and post the video...)
I'm sure after a ton of hand wringing and consternation they'll turn out fine...just like everyone else has.
 
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