Navy pistol/rifle qual question?

[chenama]

What are the rules regarding initially rating a "higher" ribbon and subsequently scoring a "lower" ribbon in subsequent quals?

The instruction mentions that

"...the duration of qualification as marksman,sharpshooter, or expert is indefinite. Those who qualify as anexpert rate a ribbon and medal...."

but doesn't really specify what happens if you (for instance) score expert and then score sharpshooter. I've heard conflicting stories from several different sources, including a chief who stated that since the qualifications were indeed "indefinite", you could exempt yourself from command re-qualification unless you were unqualified or wanted a higher qualification, and one who said lower score = lower ribbon.

who is right? let me know, thanks in advance.

 

[H60Gunner]

I believe the intent of the 3591.1E is to retain the highest qualification you shot. If you shoot expert and are awarded the medal, then suck at your next shoot, and shoot marksman you still retain the medal. I read nowhere in the instruction about "exempting" yourself from a qual., just to preserve your previous qualification.

 

[CAMike]

Interesting topic. As I was the small arms training officer on several FFG's -I never experienced a service member "down qualifying" to the next lower qualification standard because of poor marksmanship. As I recall- we never had a POOW DQ'd for bad marksmanship one year to the next. But then again maybe my previous commands were simply out of touch pertaining to small arms standards in the mid 80's to early 90's? If memory serves- one always kept their highest qualification\achieved no matter what. If we screwed the pooch= let me know. Thanks.

 

[chenama]

If memory serves- one always kept their highest qualification\achieved no matter what.

On my friend's ship, he said they have to annually re qualify in order to be able to carry their 9mm for OOD, but if you're an expert, the you're good to go for life (i.e, the ribbon is a non-issue). This is in line with what you're saying.

 

[BigRed389]

On my friend's ship, he said they have to annually re qualify in order to be able to carry their 9mm for OOD, but if you're an expert, the you're good to go for life (i.e, the ribbon is a non-issue). This is in line with what you're saying.

Right requal for sustainment training and shooting for a ribbon are completely separate issues.

Even with an expert ribbon the requirement is to participate in sustainment shoots for the purpose of maintaining watchstander proficiency.
The ribbon is just another piece of flair.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Used to be that the S and E for sharpshooter and expert were initially issue bronze and it was a 2 year qual. After 3 consecutive quals in category it was changed to silver and became a permanent qual. I guess this has changed?

 

[NYYanks]

As a SAMI (since '07), I will chime in and say what's been mentioned already is correct: Once you rate it, it's yours fer life. If you shoot a 231 on the pistol (M11 or M9) and the next time you shoot it's a 217, you will keep your expert rating from the first shoot, not downgrade to sharpshooter. Keep in mind this is ONLY for the BHQC or RQC. If you shoot a perfect score on the HPWC or either lowlight courses, you do not rate any chest candy.

As far as carrying goes, the qual is techinically good fer 12 months, though that can be extended by the CO due to deployments and the such. If yer gonna instruct, then you have to requal ever 6 months.

HAL, as to the color of the devices, since I've been in (FEB '02) I've never seen a bronze E, so musta been something they did away with. I will say that the qualification process and devices are different for the Navy Marksmanship teams, which is a whole 'nother discussion.

 

[Tomodachi]

Aye, shoot expert you keep the medal no matter how bad you shoot the rest of your career.

MA2

 

[A4sForever]

...Even with an expert ribbon the requirement is to participate in sustainment shoots for the purpose of maintaining watchstander proficiency.
....

Do you still qualify on every turnaround for possible assignment as 'courier' .... ??? Or did that go away ??

Used to be that the S and E for sharpshooter and expert were initially issue bronze and it was a 2 year qual. After 3 consecutive quals in category it was changed to silver and became a permanent qual. I guess this has changed?

Never heard that one -- what time frame ??? We qualified pistol & rifle as a Middie -- got 'sliver' E's -- never looked back.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Never heard that one -- what time frame ??? We qualified pistol & rifle as a Middie -- got 'sliver' E's -- never looked back.

Just looked at the letter I received after shooting pistol Sharpshooter and rifle expert right after AOCS in June 1983. "Authorized.....Expert Rifleman medal......Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon with Bronze E attachment....Pistol Marksmanship ribbon with bronze S attachement....until June 30, 1985."

After the third time I shoot expert with the rifle (and later with the pistol) in 1989 (and 1990 for pistol), the letter/pg 13 entry says "Having qualified expert on three consecutive occasions, you are permanently authorized to wear the Expert Rifleman Medal and shall use a Silver E attachment when wearing the associated Rifle Marksmanship Ribbon."