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National travesty...

schwarti

schwarti

Active Member
Contributor
The New England Shelter for Homeless Vets is right up the street from where I work - I've spoken with quite a few of those guys. Just sad stuff, all around...
 
phrogdriver

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
It's a tragedy, sure, but I'm not really sure what should be done. Private charity, definitely, but people who go around bitching about what a travesty it is that our country is somehow betraying veterans by leaving them homeless are full of BS. Unless the military and VA dropped the ball on a disabilitating condition, there really isn't much excuse for a vet to go homeless. You got paid while you were in the service, right? They offered a chance to re-enlist, right? You got a TAPS/SEPS class? This isn't the Great Depression, and the vets aren't living in Hoovervilles.

Being a vet doesn't mean the world owes you three hots and a cot for the rest of your life. Plus, EVERY homeless person says they were "Agent Orange" and in the Green Berets, and gives real veterans who made something of themselves bad names. I'll bet this is a serious portion of the sample.
 
scoober78

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
phrogdriver said:
It's a tragedy, sure, but I'm not really sure what should be done. Private charity, definitely, but people who go around bitching about what a travesty it is that our country is somehow betraying veterans by leaving them homeless are full of BS. Unless the military and VA dropped the ball on a disabilitating condition, there really isn't much excuse for a vet to go homeless. You got paid while you were in the service, right? They offered a chance to re-enlist, right? You got a TAPS/SEPS class? This isn't the Great Depression, and the vets aren't living in Hoovervilles.

Being a vet doesn't mean the world owes you three hots and a cot for the rest of your life. Plus, EVERY homeless person says they were "Agent Orange" and in the Green Berets, and gives real veterans who made something of themselves bad names. I'll bet this is a serious portion of the sample.
Click to expand...


Nobody, least of all me, is arguing that the world owes them "three hots and a cot" for the rest of their lives. I didn't say that we should go out and buy every homeless vet meals and a house.

However, do you think it is just coincidence that veterans are over-represented? Seems like a fairly high chi squared to me...and while the current crop of service members receive TAP classes etc...many of the homeless vets did not, due to the era of their service.

Call me sentimental, call me liberal whatever. The fact is that you would be wrong. To me it is as simple as the fact that we should take care of our own. These are brothers in arms. Maybe they weren't Chuck Yeager or Audie Murphy but if you can't empathize with them, who the hell can you empathize with? Bottom line? For me, the long line, gray, blue or whatever is a brotherhood...and that is worth standing up for. Period.
 
J

JIMC5499

ex-Mech
scoober78 said:
However, do you think it is just coincidence that veterans are over-represented? Seems like a fairly high chi squared to me...and while the current crop of service members receive TAP classes etc...many of the homeless vets did not, due to the era of their service.
Click to expand...

On this one I have to make the PC disclaimer that I don't mean to offend those who are suffering because of this issue.

A few years after I was discharged my father passed away. I was working as an aircraft maintance contractor and had returned home between contracts shortly before this happened. I decided to stay home and find a job to help my Mother take care of my sisters. When I went to the local Employment Office to register they determined that by their definition I was classified as "Homeless", because I was living with a parent. After experiencing this I have to question the validity of the homeless statistic.
 
Huggy Bear

Huggy Bear

Registered User
pilot
One other statistic often bandied about is the unemployment rate for veterans. I'm going to call BS on that one. When I was in tap class recently it was me (the only officer) and 57 sailors. When they did the presentation on unemployment benefits, handed out brochures, and clarified how easy and how much one could collect there was much excitement in the room. Nothing against those who genuinely need it due to a short term hardship, but quite a few sailors around me were talking about how they were going to move home and soak unemployment benefits until they run out.
 
HH-60H

HH-60H

Manager
pilot
Contributor
I think the most important point that I saw in the link I posted was that vets make up 40% of the male homeless population while vets only make up 34% of the general male population. At the same time the largest percentage of homeless vets served at the end of the Vietnam war or after the war. This suggests that they were victims of less than judicious recruiting efforts. I take that to mean that it is more likely that they were either minor criminals and/or more susceptible to mental problems.
 
P

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
HH-60H said:
I think the most important point that I saw in the link I posted was that vets make up 40% of the male homeless population while vets only make up 34% of the general male population. At the same time the largest percentage of homeless vets served at the end of the Vietnam war or after the war. This suggests that they were victims of less than judicious recruiting efforts. I take that to mean that it is more likely that they were either minor criminals and/or more susceptible to mental problems.
Click to expand...
I agree, back in those days you always hear about "go to jail, or go to the military..."
 
A4sForever

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but:

So much of this is pure, unadulterated bullshit. It is being pushed to put forth a political agenda on the part of some -- just like it was "back then". Most of the Vietnam era guys who crashed and burned after they "got out" were losers from the get-go. They were misfits prior to their military service, they were losers in the service, they were losers after their service -- and that is due to their inherent lack of character on THEIR part, not a byproduct of their military service.

I would be willing to bet a LOT of money that many of the "homeless vets" we see today never put on a uniform, if one would care to do a record check.

All that being said, once you are "out" .... UNCLE really doesn't give a damn about you. That's a fact, Jack.

My opinion .... my $20 worth.

But believe it ...
 
annaisdivine

annaisdivine

New Member
I just so happened to have volunteered for the Point in Time Survey and interviewed homeless people. Homeless data is tricky to collect because, well, you can't use an address and homeless people don't like to give out their SSN. To reduce duplications, once a year, on a given day, across the U.S., a homeless survey is conducted.

Anyway, I pretty much had to go by what they told me and many times, they told their sympathetic story and didn't miss the opportunity to solicit money from me. One of them actually asked me out and said, "you sure are a pretty thang. Why don't you let me take you out to dinner? I promise to take good care of you."
No joke! Those were his words exactly. I was like, "excuse me?" And he was down-right serious about it. My friend said the look on my face was priceless.
 
Brett1

Brett1

Banned
A4sForever said:
I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but:

So much of this is pure, unadulterated bullshit. It is being pushed to put forth a political agenda on the part of some -- just like it was "back then". Most of the Vietnam era guys who crashed and burned after they "got out" were losers from the get-go. They were misfits prior to their military service, they were losers in the service, they were losers after their service -- and that is due to their inherent lack of character on THEIR part, not a byproduct of their military service.

I would be willing to bet a LOT of money that many of the "homeless vets" we see today never put on a uniform, if one would care to do a record check.

All that being said, once you are "out" .... UNCLE really doesn't give a damn about you. That's a fact, Jack.

My opinion .... my $20 worth.

But believe it ...
Click to expand...

Couldnt agree more. I was about to ask how you would differentiate between Vets that have excellent service records that have fallen on hard times and just fuck ups that didnt want to go, didnt want to stay and just did the minimum. Short of physical or mental disabilities its pretty hard to not be able to make a living in the country... albeit not lavish you can sleep ina bed and eat 3 a day.
 
FLYTPAY

FLYTPAY

Pro-Rec Fighter Pilot
pilot
None
Homeless vets.....from the recent War on Terror? Bullshit! This war "started" six years ago and the "veteran" population is overstated. I totally agree with A4's about losers to begin with will be losers once they get out. The Air Force and the Navy do not have a significant force "in contact" in Iraq or Afghanistan. Therefore if anyone is a recent "veteran" of the Navy or Air Farce and is homeless, has PTSD etc, they are probably full of crap. This leads us to the Army and USMC as the forces "in contact" and where you would most likely see PTSD. In addition to the VA and individual services dropping the ball, the families would have had to foresake their "veteran" children. Do I buy it? No fukking way! Get a job, get off drugs, and quit being a leech on society and my tax dollars! It really isn't that hard t get your $hit together! When I was in stationed in Jacksonville, I saw entirely too many incidences of homeless people that were addicted to drugs or alcohol and were simply lazy. Why is someone begging for money on a Monday? That is the perfect day to go get a job! People flock to this country for the oppurtunity to work.
God has blessed me with a lot. My wife and I have worked our asses off for the quality of life that we have. It pisses me off when she tells me about public assistance receivers who complains that they have to pay $2 for a prescription! I pay a McDonald's manager's salary in taxes so that they can get $2 oxycontin prescriptions that they sell on the street anyway!
This is America! Land of capitalism and democracy. The country where ANYONE can become wealthy with a little bit of work and smarts. My take on the situation is this, let them help themselves. I support charities for widows, orphans, abused animals, Tailhook, and disease research, not indigents. Here is my disclaimer, I have seen addiction, homelessness, and legal issues hit home personally. Just remember that fukkups like Lynndie England and Charles Graner are "veterans".

This might seem coldhearted and might offend some.....good. It is meant to. Thanks for reading my Monday Morning rant....oh yeah, Happy Veteran's Day to all Veterans!
 
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