Mobilizations, when did you tell your employer?

[ABMD]

I searched, didn't find much out there. This should be good gouge for any reservists who staring at a future MOB and wondering when to let the cat out of the bag with their employer.

For those that have done this, did you wait till orders were in hand or did you elude to a possible mobilization in the future then just wait for a later date to spill the beans?

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

I've done it for both MOBs and ADSW. Both times I told them before I had orders in hand because I did not get hard copy orders until really late in the process.

It is simple. Tell them the following:
"I will be gone starting this date. Anticipated date of return is xxx"

I extended my ADSW and just told them the following via email:
"I will be staying on orders until XXX"

My employer was not happy about it especially when I took ADSW orders. But, the employer doesn't pay my bills or live in my house. I used to care about what my employer would think. But, I've come to realize that we are all replaceable and you should always do what is best for you and your family. You don't owe your boss an explanation for anything.

 

[snake020]

For long term ADT, ADSW, and MOB, I wait until I have had orders in hand. Sometimes that's been 7 months in advance (MOB), sometimes that's been a week in advance (recent ADT).

In the latter case, I was a by name request for ADT orders three months before the intended start date, but various levels of the chop chain weren't engaged, there seemed to be risks of not getting funding, and I was ambivalent about the whole thing so I let them sort out whether they really needed me or not.

For me personally, I don't see the point of getting my employer spun up without hard copy orders. I did that once, and it was more of a pain for me when they fell through because I had already started handing off projects to people, only to yank them back.

 

[snake020]

My employer was not happy about it especially when I took ADSW orders.

The only set of orders I've differentiated was my current MOB because the orders are so long and they can't expect any support from me for my role whilst I'm away. Aside from that, I only tell them that I've been recalled to active duty to support a project or training. They don't need the details on whether it's IDTT, AT, ADT, or ADSW.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

The only set of orders I've differentiated was my current MOB because the orders are so long and they can't expect any support from me for my role whilst I'm away. Aside from that, I only tell them that I've been recalled to active duty to support a project or training. They don't need the details on whether it's IDTT, AT, ADT, or ADSW.

They weren't happy because I left for 7 months and then extended for the next two fiscal years. I didn't mean to say that I told them the type of orders.

 

[ABMD]

My employer was not happy about it especially when I took ADSW orders. But, the employer doesn't pay my bills or live in my house. I used to care about what my employer would think. But, I've come to realize that we are all replaceable and you should always do what is best for you and your family. You don't owe your boss an explanation for anything.

For long term ADT, ADSW, and MOB, I wait until I have had orders in hand. Sometimes that's been 7 months in advance (MOB), sometimes that's been a week in advance (recent ADT).

In the latter case, I was a by name request for ADT orders three months before the intended start date, but various levels of the chop chain weren't engaged, there seemed to be risks of not getting funding, and I was ambivalent about the whole thing so I let them sort out whether they really needed me or not.

For me personally, I don't see the point of getting my employer spun up without hard copy orders. I did that once, and it was more of a pain for me when they fell through because I had already started handing off projects to people, only to yank them back.

@SELRES_AMDO I mean technically I pay my own bills, but it's with the salary they pay me. I have significant upside with my employer and do not want to jeopardize that, but they know I can be mobilized at any time. I just don't want to tarnish my brand with my employer.

@snake020 I am leaning on wait until orders are in hand. Like you said, no sense in getting everyone spun up just to find out the mob was cancelled (had that happen once already).

 

[bubblehead]

USERRA also requires that service members provide advance written or verbal notice to their employers for all military duty unless giving notice is impossible, unreasonable, or precluded by military necessity. An employee should provide notice as far in advance as is reasonable under the circumstances.

§ 1002.85 Must the employee give advance notice to the employer of his or her service in the uniformed services?
(a) Yes. The employee, or an appropriate officer of the uniformed service in which his or her service is to be performed, must notify the employer that the employee intends to leave the employment position to perform service in the uniformed services, with certain exceptions described below...

When you receive your orders, notify your employer... If you have a good relationship with your employer then notify them when you know you will be going on orders (i.e., are tagged for mob or have ADSW/ADT in the pipeline) but do not yet have orders in hand.

 

[bubblehead]

They weren't happy because I left for 7 months and then extended for the next two fiscal years.

Tough sh*t... To them and legally you are being recalled for military duty. They do not need to know you are the one asking for extensions. I've been out since September 2020 and I keep extending my orders on a month-by-month basis.

I didn't mean to say that I told them the type of orders.

You are not required to do so. You tell them you will be out on military duty and depending on your HR processes, you submit your orders, etc.. Let them figure out the rest, especially if your employer is a toilet bowl in which case do exactly what your HR manual requires you to do.

If your orders are 30 days or less your company handles everything internally. If your orders are 31 days or more, they outsource the handling of them to an external insurance firm like Lincoln Financial who actually pays your differential salary, if any, and not your company because your company is paying Lincoln for said coverage.

BT

What I have learned is that CEO's and Boards like to advertise their support of military employees - because it is good marketing and they receive tax credits - but, in the end, your experience as a Reservist at a company is solely dependent on your 1- and 2- up manager.

BT

Don't even think if putting your Reserve duty on your resume or telling a potential employer about it. If and when you have to fill out an official job application (i.e., the application you fill out after receiving and accepting a job offer), then yes, put your Reserve time in, otherwise, don't even mention it. Ever. Why? In my experience, it's never been appropriate to do so (i.e., it's never come up in discussions) and because I've been screwed over a time or two (e.g., having a job offer rescinded or final interview suddenly cancelled) after bringing it up.

 

[Hair Warrior]

I’m in this boat myself, so all the gouge is good, keep it coming.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

@ABMD My experience is that your employer will not be happy about it no matter how great your working relationship is. You just gapped a billet and now they have to figure out how to cover down and do your job. If you're that concerned with your brand then I'd advise you to not take orders unless you're ready to suffer the repercussions. It will take some time to recover if you continue working there. Just my opinion.

 

[bubblehead]

@ABMD My experience is that your employer will not be happy about it no matter how great your working relationship is. You just gapped a billet and now they have to figure out how to cover down and do your job. If you're that concerned with your brand then I'd advise you to not take orders unless you're ready to suffer the repercussions. It will take some time to recover if you continue working there. Just my opinion.

Go on orders if you want. USERRA has teeth and if you are willing and able to run things up the flag pole, you will prevail, especially if you are a government civilian. Some GS14/15 giving you a hard time? Easily remediated with a well-documented IG complaint. If you are not willing or able to go the extra mile, then stop complaining.

If you work in the private sector, a call to EGSR usually remediates most issues because they act on your behalf. They call whomever you list on the form. The first "corporate executive" in your management chain is who I would list. That is, someone who is a direct report the the CEO. Most private sector employers receive tax credits for hiring Veterans (includes Reservists) because you fill out a form during the hiring process. This only helps to bolster your case.

As I say to everyone, take and save contemporaneous notes, as well as any and all emails relating to your military stuff. Taking a photo of your laptop screen of every page of a document or email.

 

[ABMD]

Thank you @bubblehead , my employer is "pro-military" and has policies in place to support activated services members (mobilizations, etc). I spoke to the head of our military employee resource group, who himself is a reservist (Coast Guard...there's a joke in their somewhere) about his experiences. He has deployed several times, but his deployments are usually a few months long (2-4).

 

[nittany03]

Don't even think if putting your Reserve duty on your resume or telling a potential employer about it. If and when you have to fill out an official job application (i.e., the application you fill out after receiving and accepting a job offer), then yes, put your Reserve time in, otherwise, don't even mention it. Ever. Why? In my experience, it's never been appropriate to do so (i.e., it's never come up in discussions) and because I've been screwed over a time or two (e.g., having a job offer rescinded or final interview suddenly cancelled) after bringing it up.

For those who may be reading this thread and job hunting . . . technique only here. If the employer is going to pull an offer over USERRA, they’re probably also going to be one of the aforementioned toilet bowls. You don't HAVE to say you're a reservist, and if you don't want to, don't. But there's also a counterexample in COVID times, where I'd argue it's beneficial to be able to at least show you were employed part-time as opposed to just sitting on the couch. Not to disrespect how hard it is to be funemployed even if you are a reserve bum . . . BTDT, got the T-shirt. But going to a shit employer to avoid being unemployed is kind of like getting involved with a psycho to avoid being single, unless you no-kidding need the paycheck.

Also, you're interviewing with the people you're going to work with. Hopefully, you end up in a spot where you're working with decent people, especially your managers. @bubblehead is right that your managers are key to your experience. And if they're decent people, they'll understand how the game is played and work with your reserve commitments. But it's also on you, if you really want the job, not to play gotcha games with your management. Because, yeah, you CAN ultimately pull the USERRA card and say "fuck it, I'm going." But you ultimately have to build up both your reserve career AND not burn bridges in your civilian industry. Because civilians talk, too, and one of the reason some of those companies who cancel interviews or mysteriously pull offers do that is because perhaps, in their mind, they had to deal with "that asshole reservist" they felt threw them under the bus. Sure, some people will think that regardless, but it's incumbent on all of us as reservists not to blue falcon the Reserve/Guard community by burning bridges that will come back to bite other reservists.

I work at a Fortune 500, and one of our Senior VPs, who's one of the CEO's skip-level reports, recently retired from the reserves after spending a bunch of time in a support role in NSW, to include a MOB. A few years back, Microsoft put out a press release about one of their senior employees pinning on O-7 on the campus in Redmond. It can be done all the way up to the highest levels.

 

[bubblehead]

I work at a Fortune 500, and one of our Senior VPs, who's one of the CEO's skip-level reports, recently retired from the reserves after spending a bunch of time in a support role in NSW, to include a MOB.

Again, one or two levels down from the CEO is a much different optic on military Reserve support than most people several layers down, including where I work, a global bank with 200k+ employees.

All happening in 2020... I filed more than one complaint against my manager, a 20 year plus employee, and nothing came of the complaints because their manager supported them. This despite having numerous pages of documented evidence. Our CEO sent out the regular "we love Veterans" email on Veteran's Day... I was out on and continue to be on military leave but replied directly to the CEO and detailed my experience, told the person how much I appreciated what they were doing to change the culture, and reiterated that their sentiment was not the norm at my level. Within a couple of days, I literally get an email to my personal email account (the one listed in our HR system) asking for me to contact employee relations. Fast forward to today... My manager suddenly retires after 20 plus years with zero fanfare.

A few years back, Microsoft put out a press release about one of their senior employees pinning on O-7 on the campus in Redmond. It can be done all the way up to the highest levels.

I would not use Microsoft as the poster child... They are in the same league with Amazon and other high-turnover employers that I would avoid with a 10 meter pole unless you are desperate for a job.

 

[nittany03]

I would not use Microsoft as the poster child... They are in the same league with Amazon and other high-turnover employers that I would avoid with a 10 meter pole unless you are desperate for a job.

Any company is what you make of it . . . mine might be some techies' worst nightmare, because (gasp, OMG, the horror) pre-COVID we wore ties to the office. I wouldn't write off Microsoft, Amazon, or any company if they came calling. Granted, if a company had a rep for churning and burning, I'd do some poking around before accepting an offer. And I've got a decent team I'm not in a big rush to leave. But any organization that big is going to have some great people to work for and also some utter assholes to avoid. There are teams in my company I'd polish my resume up if I got transferred there. But if you judge any major multinational based on the letterhead and not the people you're going to be working with, you're doing it wrong.

Also, right or wrong, sounds like in the end, at least your CEO and ER had their shit wired. It's like when CO hears about SN Timmy's asshole abusive LPO and ends up taking the LPO to mast/ADSEP. Sometimes stuff doesn't bubble up to the level it needs to right away, and you can't blame people for not being able to read minds.