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Medal Sytem Recommendations

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phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Finally found this excellent list of recommendations on Hackworth.com. It would take me from 13 to 6, but at least we'd know who'd actually done something, and would end the "Mexical General" look among REMFs.

Bringing the Awards System Back to Reality
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The original premise of the American system of Military awards, as it progressed from the institution of a Medal of Honor during the Civil War through its expansion during and between the two World Wars, was to recognize bravery in combat, participation in campaigns and some few acts of outstanding planning and leadership in warfare. From that original intent, it has become so bloated as to be almost meaningless. It is not unusual for a service member to complete a first enlistment with four rows of ribbons, or for a service member with a few tours in, but no combat service, to wear multiple personal decorations. In the last 10 years or so, Marines and attached Navy personnel have been decorated with achievement, commendation, and meritorious service medals for finishing multiple MCI courses, for outstanding journalism; for excellence as recruiters or instructors; for designing a piece of equipment; and even for painting a mural on a wall. Our multi-medaled soldiers, sailors, airmen and (sadly) Marines, even those without combat or expeditionary service often resemble comic opera Prussian noblemen.

General Pershing, this country’s only 6 star flag officer (he was promoted to General of the Armies while on route home in 1919) was rewarded for his victory over Germany in World War I with a single award of the Army Distinguished Service Medal. By 1991, that medal had been so debased by use as a peacetime end of tour going away present that Generals Schwartzkopf and Powell were each awarded no less than five Distinguished Service Medals for their leadership in the first Gulf War. Each of these admittedly superb officers was awarded the Distinguished Service Medal of the Defense Department, The Army, The Navy, The Coast Guard and The Air Force; as well as the Presidential Medal of Freedom, which is supposed to be an award for civilians. This, despite existing regulations prohibiting the award of more than one medal for a single act or series of acts.

Might it be time for a little return to reality here?

Adhering to the following nine general rules, in addition to certain specific recommendations for specific awards, might return the system to its original integrity.

Proposed General Rules

Enforce the rule forbidding multiple awards for single acts or series of acts.


End forever, the practice of end of tour awards, from achievement medals through Distinguished Service Medals, for all commissioned and enlisted ranks.


Ban the practice of one service presenting its service specific award to a member of another service, and eliminate all Defense Department or joint Service awards, from Distinguished Service Medals through Achievement Medals and the Joint Meritorious Unit Award. Adopt regulations that would allow any official, military or civilian, who has the authority to award a given level of decoration to award the recipients service specific decoration at the same level.


Drastically reduce peacetime awards of non-combat medals so that in order to receive (for instance) the Legion of Merit, the recipient must truly accomplish something of outstanding value. The first circumnavigation of the globe by a submarine under the Arctic ice probably did rate a Legion of Merit. A successful tour in command of Albany, Georgia or Barstow, California probably does not. The award of a peacetime decoration should again become a noteworthy event.


Eliminate, forever, the award of military commendation and achievement medals for other than bravery. They should never be awarded for academic, administrative, artistic, athletic, logistic, or public relations accomplishments.


Eliminate, forever, the approval for wear by individuals of Foreign Service medals and unit citations, including those of the United Nations, NATO, OAS, etc. These awards could still be accepted by organizations, but would be displayed only as streamers by units which are authorized colors.


Eliminate the third echelon of unit citations entirely (MUC or equivalent), except as a streamer for display on a color. Insist on the requirement that 1st Echelon Unit Citations (PUC or equivalent) be awarded for combat only; and that the 2nd Echelon Award (NUC or equivalent) be awarded only for combat or direct combat support--meaning that the cited unit is supporting a combat unit, is in imminent danger of becoming involved in combat, and generally is within sound of the guns.


Eliminate most, if not all, ribbons for which there are no accompanying medals. If the cited activity is not worth a medal, it is probably not worth a ribbon either.


Finally, adopt a formal system of plaques, trophies, written commendations, diplomas, or even medals not intended for war on the uniform which will recognize superior performance without debasing the Pyramid of Honor.
The following specific suggestions for specific awards are offered:

Medal of Honor (all services); Distinguished Service Cross/Navy Cross/Air Force Cross: No change. Continue to closely adhere to the stringent standards already in effect.


Department of Defense Distinguished Service Medal: Eliminate this and all DOD or joint awards. Use service specific award where warranted.


Army/Navy/Air Force/Coast Guard Distinguished Service Medals: No change, but drastically reduce peacetime, non-combat awards.


Silver Star: No change.


DOD Superior Service Medal: Eliminate.


Legion of Merit: No change, but reduce peacetime awards, as with DSM above.


Distinguished Flying Cross: No change, but eliminate strike/flight awards based on number of missions, sorties, hours, etc.


Soldiers Medal/Navy and Marine Corps Medal/Airman's Medal/Coast Guardsman's Medal: No change.


Bronze Star Medal: No change; but, no blanket awards. Accompanying citations must include specific personal actions. No group awards to missile crews, etc.


Purple Heart: No change. But, continue to award only to military personnel and only for battlefield wounds. And, put it back where it belongs, following the Commendation and Achievement Medals.


DOD Meritorious Service Medal: Eliminate.


Meritorious Service Medal: Probably eliminate. This was intended to replace the Bronze Star for non-combat meritorious service. However, the Bronze Star (without the Combat Distinguishing Device). continues to be awarded for meritorious service in wartime; and what do we need a non-combat meritorious service award for in peacetime? It was also intended to be a junior award of the Legion of Merit. Frankly, we don't need one. Any meritorious service in peacetime which is not meritorious enough to reach Legion of Merit level is probably not significant enough to warrant a medal.


Air Medal: No change, but eliminate strike/flight awards.


Joint Service Commendation Medal: Eliminate. Use service specific awards.


Army/Navy/Air Force/Coast Guard Commendation Medals: Continue in form. Use only for combat bravery in the presence of the enemy with "V" device; or non-combat bravery (life saving, saving someone from a crime) or combat meritorious service, without the "V" device. No end of tour "thanks a lot" awards; not for recruiting; etc. And let's go back to calling ours the Navy Commendation Medal. Marines are part of the Navy Department - the best part, of course - and recipients of this medal don't need to be reminded that it is for Marines too by two clumsy extra words in its title.


Joint Service Achievement Medal: Eliminate. Use service specific award.


Army/Navy/Air Force/Coast Guard Achievement Medals. Same as the Commendation Medal.


Combat Action Ribbon: Eliminate this award entirely. A poor execution of a fairly good idea, this was intended to imitate the Army's Combat Infantry Badge, but it never achieved that award's prestige. When instituted, its guidelines were so strict that members of the south end of the patrol, the north end of which engaged the enemy, would not rate the award. It was specifically intended not to be a unit award. However, of late, it has been awarded to the entire ship's company of vessels that fired tomahawks at targets far over the horizon. I recently saw a first enlistment Navy Petty Officer with a support service rating wearing three of them. There probably should be a distinctive device for the Marine or Sailor who looks the enemy in the eye on a regular basis, but until firm, exclusive criteria evolve, this is just another merit badge. Making it retroactive to World War II was just silly.


Air Force Combat Readiness Medal: Eliminate. Give them a plaque, certificate or trophy. Bad enough when it was just a ribbon, but a medal?


Gold and Silver Life Saving Medals: No change. Hardly ever used anyway.


Coast Guard Commandant's Letter of Commendation Ribbon. Eliminate. The letter is sufficient.
Presidential Unit Citation (all services): No change. But never for non-combat.


Army Valorous Unit Citation/Navy Unit Commendation, and all 2nd Echelon Unit Citations: No change, but only for combat or direct combat support.


Joint Meritorious Unit Award: Eliminate. Use service specific awards.


All 3rd Echelon Unit Citations: Eliminate. Replace with a streamer.


Navy "E' Award Ribbon: Ridiculous! Eliminate. Paint it on the stack. (And why did this ribbon have to look so much like the Purple Heart? Those gold and white flank stripes are impossible to see at a glance.)


Good Conduct Medals (all services): No change. But, adopt a similar medal, same for all services, to be awarded to any enlisted person who is commissioned, who would have been entitled to a Good Conduct Medal, but failed to earn one solely due to having served at least one year, but less than the required time for a GCM prior to commissioning, active duty only. Call it the Prior Enlisted Service Medal.


Outstanding Airman of the Year Ribbon/Air Force Recognition Ribbon: Eliminate. Give them a certificate or a plaque.


Air Force Longevity of Service Ribbon: Eliminate. Duplicates a GCM. Go back to service stripes.


Army/Air Force/Navy/Marine Corps/National Guard/Coast Guard Reserve Medals: No change. But, award to enlisted people only. These are basically reserve “Good Conduct Medals.” Officers don't get GCM's.


Armed Forces Reserve Medal: Eliminate. There is no equivalent award for 10 years active duty. Award metal devices (numbers?) for the ribbon of the various reserve medals to recognize mobilizations.


P.O.W. Medal: Eliminate. Sorry. No disrespect, to our valiant P.O.W.'s, but it is inappropriate to have a medal for being captured


Arctic and Antarctic Service Medals: No change. But, medals only, eliminate ribbons with no medal.


National Defense Service Medal: This is now in its fourth incarnation. This time even reserves on ACDUTRA get it. Let's formalize it, and make it an award for a tour on PCS orders in a non-combat area, other than for basic training/academy training/MOS training/pre-deployment training, when the country is in a state of declared war, or undeclared war of such significance that a specific campaign medal has been created to recognize it. An operational tour (full or partial) would be required. It could also be awarded for service which would otherwise be recognized with the Humanitarian Service Medal or Armed Forces Service Medal; and those two awards could be retired.


Humanitarian Service Medal/Armed Forces Service Medal: Eliminate both. See above.


Multi-National Force and Observers Medal: An exception to the rule on wearing service medals for supra-national organization; O.K, as long as the recipient has specific orders to the assignment and no U.S. Service Medal or Expeditionary Medal has been authorized.


All ribbons from all services recognizing overseas service or deployment on ships: Eliminate. Serving overseas is what Marines, Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen do.


Army NCO Professional Development Ribbon: Eliminate. Replace with a certificate.


Army Service Ribbon/Air force Training Ribbon Eliminate! Ribbons for finishing basic training, indeed!


Air force NCO Academy Graduate Ribbon/Air Force Basic Military Training Honor Graduate/Coast Guard Basic Training Honor Graduate Ribbon. Eliminate. Replace with certificates. The 2nd and 3rd duplicate the American Spirit Honor Medal anyway.


Marksmanship Ribbons (all services): Eliminate. Replace with badges.


USMC Recruiting/Drill Instructor/Security Guard Ribbons (and all similar awards for any service). Eliminate. These awards place these duties (no matter how important or arduous) on a higher plane that a tour with a grunt battalion, in the fleet, or with force recon.


Saving the best for last.... Outstanding Civilian Volunteer Service Medal: A medal, just like we got for serving in Vietnam or Desert Storm, or Korea, or the Pacific Theatre, for being a little league coach or a cub scout leader. If I have to explain why this should be eliminated, you have wasted your time reading this article, and I have wasted my time writing it.
Members of our Military are, or should be, warriors. Any other use of them is ancillary. Were there to be no wars to fight, we would not need the Military. Service people are not simply members of the "United States Military, Inc." Decorations on a Military uniform should recognize proficiency at war, period. The public should be able to correctly construe that a Marine, Soldier or Sailor wearing ribbons has been to war, possibly has distinguished himself in war; with emphasis on the word "correctly". The public draws this inference now, but is not always correct, often being fooled by someone who is a proficient clerk, or cook, or recruiter or journalist. Adopt these rules and this misrepresentation will cease, returning to the warrior without dilution the distinction to which he is entitled.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Although I agree with the intent and spirit of what the article proposes, there is now a built in expectation that the status quo will continue, so it's kind of hard to change in mid-stream w/o fvcking everything up. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Brett
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Too true...it's hard to go against the status quo...it would take a huge shift in thinking to use this system. But some of the "congrats you have a pulse" medals need to go away. I have my one McRibbon and it's a joke. I'd rather wear something I was proud of, instead of something I instantly rated because I happened to be commissioned during a time of war.
 

Crowbar

New Member
None
I'm definitely in favor of doing away with end of tour awards. What better reason to give someone an award than the fact that you're happy to be rid of them?
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Crowbar said:
I'm definitely in favor of doing away with end of tour awards. What better reason to give someone an award than the fact that you're happy to be rid of them?
The thing about EOT is if the person was a douche bag, you can still give them nothing, or a CO's LOC (essentially nothing). I don't see anything wrong, per se, with giving a sh!t hot guy a NAM on the way out. That is what awards are for.

Brett
 

Crowbar

New Member
None
I wonder what font should I use when I'm being sarcastic...

I do support awards for people who bust their asses. I don't support awards for (and you know this is a good portion of EOT awards) "Well, this guy hasn't had an award in 3 or 4 years and he's leaving soon, so let's give him a NAM/Navy Comm" (rank dependent).
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I think the UK system is appropriate. Medals should be for warfighters and profiency in your job in combat/contingencies. Personal awards should be for valor or EXCEPTIONAL leadership; campaign awards will say where you've served.

As far as those whove already gotten awards, good for them. The Corps should just set a date for revision of the awards system and go with it. People will understand, and over time, award will start to have more meaning.
 

VAmookie

Registered User
Pags said:
Too true...it's hard to go against the status quo...it would take a huge shift in thinking to use this system. But some of the "congrats you have a pulse" medals need to go away. I have my one McRibbon and it's a joke. I'd rather wear something I was proud of, instead of something I instantly rated because I happened to be commissioned during a time of war.



I can honestly say, most WWII vets would not agree with this. Even though you may not have been involved in whatever, you were in the service at the time and you could have been invovled. In the Marine Corps, every Marine is a Marine whether or not they are infantry or a cook. Is a cook less important, no, they are still a Marine. I dont know what service the original poster is in, but its important that if they could go, they would go.
 

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
"Navy "E' Award Ribbon: Ridiculous! Eliminate. Paint it on the stack. (And why did this ribbon have to look so much like the Purple Heart? Those gold and white flank stripes are impossible to see at a glance.)"

Not too sure about the ratonale on this one.

Good intention, for the most part. But it'll never happen.
 

bch

Helo Bubba
pilot
I agree with the letter 100%. Especailly on the criteria for some of the medals...

EX: Legion of Merit... The skipper of the USS VINCENNES (CG-49) was awarded the Legion of Merit follwing his ship's shoot down of an Iranian Airliner.

Air Medal: Not more than 2 yrs ago, USAF UAV crews were being awarded Air Medals (can't remember with they got the combat V though).

I really believe that medals are given away these days way too easily. Does it really make a difference in the grand scheme of things? Probably not, but it does devalue the meaning of those medals that were earned by individuals through true heroism or danger to themselves... And especaily those who were awarded such medals posthumously.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
CORPSviation said:
I can honestly say, most WWII vets would not agree with this. Even though you may not have been involved in whatever, you were in the service at the time and you could have been invovled. In the Marine Corps, every Marine is a Marine whether or not they are infantry or a cook. Is a cook less important, no, they are still a Marine. I dont know what service the original poster is in, but its important that if they could go, they would go.

So far I've been in 3yrs and have just managed to finish primary. I just think it's silly to give an award to every single person on active duty. It's not like I signed up to fight the war on terrorism, by the time of 9/11 I was in my 4th year of NROTC and my name had been on the dotted line for some time.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
CORPSviation said:
I can honestly say, most WWII vets would not agree with this. Even though you may not have been involved in whatever, you were in the service at the time and you could have been invovled. In the Marine Corps, every Marine is a Marine whether or not they are infantry or a cook. Is a cook less important, no, they are still a Marine. I dont know what service the original poster is in, but its important that if they could go, they would go.

And those WWII vets got campaign medals if they served in theater. I know that a lot of old vets think that today's uniforms are downright comical. There are airmen and soldiers with 4 years in who look like Latin American dictators. Remember that back in WWII, NAMs and NCMs were given for some pretty serious acts of heroism, not for coordinating CFC and Navy Relief. If you look at most old pictures, guys who served for 3-4 years of combat during WWII often only had one or two ribbons. Ike had barely two rows, as I recall, and he served in WWI before leading the allies in WWII.

If you don't serve in theater doing combat or contingency, guess what? Your UNIFORM ITSELF says that you are serving honorably as a member of the armed forces. That should be enough. Giving any medal, NDSM or GWOTSM, to everyone is absurd. How 'bout not giving anyone a medal and calling it even. You'd think we were subsidizing the PX by making up medals.

While I dig looking cool at Marine Corps Birthday Ball like anyone else, I think that we've really gotten away from the original point of the awards system. A great fitrep, a meritorious mast, a letter of commendation, etc. are ways to note for the official record that someone has done his job well. Save the medals for warfighting. The Marine Corps does better than the other services, but in reality is only less bad.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Agreed. I look back on my Grandfather's service: by the time he got out he'd had multiple war patrols in WWII on multiple subs and at least one cruiser (and that's not counting his enlisted service before the war), and was recommended by his skipper and commodore for command of his own boat. He got out as an 0-4 with a grand total of like FOUR medals and ribbons. But they all meant something. I would also eliminate the Navy marksmanship medals as well as the Army and AF basic training ribbons (which are absolutely ridiculous). Completing indoctrination of whatever type grants you the privilege of continuing to wear your country's uniform. You don't need another ribbon just to boost your self-esteem.
 

Clux4

Banned
A medal for signing the dotted line (National Defense)
A medal for finishing boot camp
A medal for rifle expert(Rifle Marksmanship)
You get a medal for being of good behavior (Good Conduct)
A properly trained fighting man gets a medal for not throwing the grenade on time resulting in personal injury.

Men have devised a way of rewarding each other through the medal system. The task of determining who is eligible is up to the men like yourself and myself. Favoritism and inappropriate distribution in this regard is unavoidable. Even if a DoD board was responsible for all the services and their medal distribution. (Makes the process more laborious than is necessary)

I say leave it alone, from time to time remind commanders of the purpose of the medal system know this is like talking to the wind. Besides, those guys who have wrongly earned a medal know deep down within that they do not warrant it. And to those who have worked hard and deserve it, it serves as a consolation, a reward for hard work and persistency, perseverance. It serves the purpose for which they were created. Even though at times it seems that is has lost its meaning, we should not scrap the whole thing for such reason.

Thank you
/off the soapbox
 

PropStop

Kool-Aid free since 2001.
pilot
Contributor
This letter hits the nail on the head.

a few weeks ago I was traveling in my blues through an airport. I was sporting my whole three ribbons - Nat'l Defense, GWOT, and Pistol (Sharpshooter), and my wings - I looked pretty sharp, if i do say so myself :) I sat down, waiting for my plane, and a young kid, maybe 10 or so, asked if I'd been to Iraq. I told him I hadn't. He asked what the all the stuff on my chest meant. I puffed out my chest and started with my wings, which i'm obviously quite proud of. My bravado quickly faded as I went into my ribbons.

I have to admit, i was a bit deflated after that. I'm proud to wear my nations uniform, prouder still to be a naval aviator, but i'm in no way proud of my personal achievements leading to my Nat'l Defense Medal and my GWOT. The only reason i got them was because i could fog a mirror and I stood the ready - on home cycle (the requirement of which was the ability to....fog a mirror).

You should have to do something very significant to earn a medal...you should have to actually earn it! You know, in combat, or something kinda dangerous. I don't need a chest full of fruit salad to make me proud of what I do, i get a cool uniform which I'm proud to wear. That uniform is all a civilian should need to see to prove that I'm serving my nation. If a civilian sees a significant amount of fruit salad on a military member, that should say "S/he's not only served our nation, s/he's been in the sh!t!". Currently though, a chest full of ribbons could say, "Man, that guy can type, he makes great coffee and he's never late for work!"

Damn, who put this soapbox here?
 
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