I'm interested in both the Navy and the Marine Corps. While I am, in all honesty, probably more interested in doing the types of things that a Naval officer would do, I think that becoming a Marine might make up for that. In terms of Marine Corps intelligence, can anyone explain what a company grade officer might expect from such a career early on? Any information would be very helpful in guiding me to deciding between the Marines and the Navy.
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Marine Intelligence
- Thread starter kpfxc5
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kpfxc5,
This is what I know, but I have to tell you that I have been out of the game for close to three years. I was an enlisted Marine intelligence analysts for 8 1/2 years. My first duty assignment was at 1st Battalion, 3rd Marines in the S-2 shop and then at JTF-6 in the intelligence section there. The way that it works for officers (three years ago) is that once a 2ndLt is selected for Intel they either get selected for either ground, air or human intelligence. Ground, the most popular, gives new LTs the chance to go to the fleet as either Scout Sniper Platoon Commanders (STA Platoon as us old guys like to say) or Recon platoon commanders. These ground bubbas, after TBS, go to the Infantry Officers Course (IOC) then to the Army ground intel school in Arizona. The air guys get assigned to squadrons. After TBS they go to Navy Marine Corps Intelligence Center (MNITC) in Dam Neck, VA for school. Human intelligence (HUMINT) folks get assigned to counterintelligence or interagation platoons. They also go to NMITC for school after TBS. All three classifications merge into one upon promotion to Capt, where they goto back to NMITC for further schooling and return to the fleet to serve as staff intelligence officers.
Like I said, I was in both an infantry unit and a joint unit, so if you have any further questions about those intel assignments let me know. I hope that this info is still accurate and helpful to you.
Jamie
BDCP (SWO)
(Sgt, USMC 91-99)
This is what I know, but I have to tell you that I have been out of the game for close to three years. I was an enlisted Marine intelligence analysts for 8 1/2 years. My first duty assignment was at 1st Battalion, 3rd Marines in the S-2 shop and then at JTF-6 in the intelligence section there. The way that it works for officers (three years ago) is that once a 2ndLt is selected for Intel they either get selected for either ground, air or human intelligence. Ground, the most popular, gives new LTs the chance to go to the fleet as either Scout Sniper Platoon Commanders (STA Platoon as us old guys like to say) or Recon platoon commanders. These ground bubbas, after TBS, go to the Infantry Officers Course (IOC) then to the Army ground intel school in Arizona. The air guys get assigned to squadrons. After TBS they go to Navy Marine Corps Intelligence Center (MNITC) in Dam Neck, VA for school. Human intelligence (HUMINT) folks get assigned to counterintelligence or interagation platoons. They also go to NMITC for school after TBS. All three classifications merge into one upon promotion to Capt, where they goto back to NMITC for further schooling and return to the fleet to serve as staff intelligence officers.
Like I said, I was in both an infantry unit and a joint unit, so if you have any further questions about those intel assignments let me know. I hope that this info is still accurate and helpful to you.
Jamie
BDCP (SWO)
(Sgt, USMC 91-99)
I graduated from TBS back at the beginning of summer and can tell you that Intel slots are extremely competitive. I don't recall exactly the numbers but it was probably under 10 slots available (for 200+ Marines). But, I've heard that the air intel MOS was awesome! Sounds like a great time and look at your mission! If you are planning on going into the Corps, be prepared to bust you @$$ in order to be competitive for that slot!
kpfxc5,
There is one thing that I should tell you about being an intelligence officer in the Marine Corps. It is just like being an intelligence officer in the Army, Navy and Air Force...you are support. In an infantry battalion you will always see the S-2 getting punked out by the S-3. Normally this happens becuase the S-3 is a Major while the S-2 is a Capt. Also the fact that the S-3 is an infantry officer has a lot to do with it. I can't speak from experience but only from word of mouth about squadrons, but I have heard that the pilots will really abuse the deuce until he or she earns their respect. Whenever anyone from Ops would come down and bark orders I used to think of what General Grey said, "Intelligence drives operations." Most people in operations think that this statement means that they can look to the intelligence shop for drivers. But if you do make it into intel know your trade and you will be fine. Regardless of your rank the intelligence officers has certain responsibilities to the commanding officer not the S-3. These duties are described in the FMFM 3-21 (Intelligence Operations). If you know this document and know how to hand authority figures with tact and respect a intel guy can survive. In all of my experiences in the Marine Corps some of my most memorable were when I, as a E-3 through E-5, were able to Master Sergeants to Majors that based on the information in FMFM 3-21 that they were wrong.
Good Luck and Semper Gumby,
Jamie
BDCP (SWO)
(Sgt,USMC 91-99)
There is one thing that I should tell you about being an intelligence officer in the Marine Corps. It is just like being an intelligence officer in the Army, Navy and Air Force...you are support. In an infantry battalion you will always see the S-2 getting punked out by the S-3. Normally this happens becuase the S-3 is a Major while the S-2 is a Capt. Also the fact that the S-3 is an infantry officer has a lot to do with it. I can't speak from experience but only from word of mouth about squadrons, but I have heard that the pilots will really abuse the deuce until he or she earns their respect. Whenever anyone from Ops would come down and bark orders I used to think of what General Grey said, "Intelligence drives operations." Most people in operations think that this statement means that they can look to the intelligence shop for drivers. But if you do make it into intel know your trade and you will be fine. Regardless of your rank the intelligence officers has certain responsibilities to the commanding officer not the S-3. These duties are described in the FMFM 3-21 (Intelligence Operations). If you know this document and know how to hand authority figures with tact and respect a intel guy can survive. In all of my experiences in the Marine Corps some of my most memorable were when I, as a E-3 through E-5, were able to Master Sergeants to Majors that based on the information in FMFM 3-21 that they were wrong.
Good Luck and Semper Gumby,
Jamie
BDCP (SWO)
(Sgt,USMC 91-99)
Hey Guys,
Thanks for your responses. JGalus, your description of the three "pipelines," so to speak, were helpful. That I would be on the operations side of things, as opposed to serving in a combat role, definitely weighs in on my eventual descion on what to shoot for. I'd interested in whether or not Marines on the operations side of things, particularly intelligence, get something of a hard time from others. At the moment, the idea of anyone giving any Marine a hard time doesn't seem very likely, but does the Corps, like all organizations, have a pecking order?
As to the competitiveness, what is stressed, PT performance, previous education, test scores? What sore of qualifications do intelligence officers typically have?
Again, thanks a lot, I appreciate all of your guidance.
Thanks for your responses. JGalus, your description of the three "pipelines," so to speak, were helpful. That I would be on the operations side of things, as opposed to serving in a combat role, definitely weighs in on my eventual descion on what to shoot for. I'd interested in whether or not Marines on the operations side of things, particularly intelligence, get something of a hard time from others. At the moment, the idea of anyone giving any Marine a hard time doesn't seem very likely, but does the Corps, like all organizations, have a pecking order?
As to the competitiveness, what is stressed, PT performance, previous education, test scores? What sore of qualifications do intelligence officers typically have?
Again, thanks a lot, I appreciate all of your guidance.
splendid_splinter
HMLA flyer
there's a pecking order in every aspect of the military. marines are on top of other services.. within the marines, grunts usually think they are on top. within the infantry, there's an order. pilots tend to think they're on top as well. and within aviation there's definately an order. jet pliots being on top. within the jet community. hornet drivers are on top. within that community, all-weather hornets.. and within that community, the best carrier landing scores (actually the marines don't fly delta's off the boat) but you get the point. heirarchy never ceases.
In my experience in the Corps, the infantry is the main focus. If you aren't infantry you are support. Believe it or not even if you are flying F/A-18s you are support, thus the name close air support. All Infantry Marines come off a little harsh to those non 03 (Infantry MOS) types becuase in the grunts things are down a certain way, normally by yelling. This attitude even carries over to us non 03 types who think we are better than other office Marines due to the fact that we served in the grunts.
Furthermore, the saying that every Marine is a rifleman is true especially when it comes to the infantry battalion. As intel guys in Headquarters and Service Company we did PT with the grunts, went on the same field marches as them and were out in the bush right along side with the grunts with our faces painted and M-16s ready.
I am not really sure how the Corps selects MOSs for officers any more. At one time it I was told that based on how well you did at OCS and TBS you were slotted into top, middle and bottom thrids of the class and then you were selected from there. The thought being that they wanted equal representation of the class in the different MOSs. As for a degree for intel, I don't really think it comes into play. I am basing this on the three Marine Intel Officers I knew. One had a Phys Ed degree, one a psych degree and the another a degree in aviation management. But things could be different now, I would suggest posting a message on this topic to more info from someone who has gone through this recently.
Jamie
BDCP (SWO)
(Sgt, USMC 91-99)
Furthermore, the saying that every Marine is a rifleman is true especially when it comes to the infantry battalion. As intel guys in Headquarters and Service Company we did PT with the grunts, went on the same field marches as them and were out in the bush right along side with the grunts with our faces painted and M-16s ready.
I am not really sure how the Corps selects MOSs for officers any more. At one time it I was told that based on how well you did at OCS and TBS you were slotted into top, middle and bottom thrids of the class and then you were selected from there. The thought being that they wanted equal representation of the class in the different MOSs. As for a degree for intel, I don't really think it comes into play. I am basing this on the three Marine Intel Officers I knew. One had a Phys Ed degree, one a psych degree and the another a degree in aviation management. But things could be different now, I would suggest posting a message on this topic to more info from someone who has gone through this recently.
Jamie
BDCP (SWO)
(Sgt, USMC 91-99)
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