Lusting after a Pitts Special

[McNamara]

I've finally found a reason to save some serious money and/or eventually get a good paying job. I have mentally committed myself to the idea of buying an airplane some time in the future. And I figured that since one can find a two-seat, 70s-vintage Pitts for around $50,000, why not go for it? Considering that even most "boring" airplanes (i.e. pretty much everything in the utility category) can be pretty expensive, a used Pitts seems like a great deal.

Who has experience with these? My own aerobatic time is limited to T-34 PAs, a thorough demo in an Extra 300L, and a couple of other quick flights. There was a guy who went through VT-27 before me who had his own Pitts and about 1500 hours of civilian time, so I know there is at least someone out there who can answer my questions.

As far as training goes, I think I need a taildragger endorsement and ten hours in type (for insurance purposes). How difficult is it to learn how to handle these planes? What kind of annual expenses should I expect in terms of maintenance, hanger fees, insurance, et cetera?

I never seriously considered owning an airplane before, but it will probably be the only way I can get any enjoyment out of flying on a regular basis. I hope this is a realistic goal.

 

[gaijin6423]

Dude, didn't you just buy a house in war-torn NOLA? It might just be the bourbon talking, but I say, "One thing at a time, weedhopper."

BTW, the wifey (and her rat dog) are coming in this sunday. If you'll be around in the next 3wks or so, we'll have to go gambling or something. Booyah.

 

[McNamara]

I'm not talking about buying one tomorrow ya hoser. I mean 10-15 years from now, unless I hit the real estate jackpot when we move out of NOLA. I figure if I can live through owning a house, I can do an airplane (assuming the cost is scaled down appropriately). Unless you balloon up to 250 pounds or something, you can have a free ride. 'Glove,' on the other hand, may be restricted from flying with me until he gets the barfing thing under control. Wait, that was mean; never mind.

If Ops gets their s*** together and I finish my last two trainers this week, I'll be in town by next weekend. Never been gambling, but Harrah's had a cool ice bar. They're still refurbishing, but Boomtown is open.

 

[confused_pilot]

yea i just sold my mooney to the junk yard.. old planes=bad money pit

 

[mules83]

I have flown in a pitts a couple of times and it is one of the more difficult tailwheel airplanes to fly. Basically, you have to keep it above 100 kts until short final (due to lack of controllablity under 100 kts) and the wheel base is so narrow that if you land with any sideload, hold on and be prepared to go into the weeds. Once off the ground, its a blast though.

Have you checked insurance costs with your no tailwheel time, it might be crazy high.

Cost wise, the annuals is what gets you. My dad use to own a Cessna 172 and the mechanics would always find something else that needed to be fixed, then something else, then something else. Its just how planes are. And then when you have put a lot of money and special gadets into it, its in the middle of a freak hailstorm in FL, and the insurance company totals it (thats what happened to my dads).

There are a lot of good books out there on buying airplanes. Make sure you do your research before buying.

the two happiest days of owning a airplane is the day you buy it and the day you sell it.....thats what i hear from people who have own them

 

[ChuckMK23]

Owning an aircraft is doable. I would seriously recommend a partnership with 2 or 3 other like minded people. It then becomes quite affordable. They key is finding the right people and the right aircraft.

First things first, start buying issues of Trade-A-Plane and track what Pitts S-2's are going for on the market. Join the Pitts pilot/owners association and get the newsletter mailed to you.

I was in a partnership on a 78 Piper Warrior - and it was quite workable. We sold the aircraft at a $16,000 profit three years later. It was a great experience.

 

[Stearmann4]

Mc,

I had an S-1S (one-holer) for awhile and absolutely loved it! There are, a couple of factors to consider.

1. There are a couple of different 2-seat models; If you aren't planning on trying to compete at the unlimited level, the S-2A is a good bargain ($45-50k), it just has about 60 less HP)

2. All acro-biplanes are challenging to land, and your insurance quotes will reflect this. If you're planning 5-10 years in the future, I'd suggest buying a Cub, Champ, or C-140 and log a couple of hundred hours of cheap (as cheap as it gets) TW time which will soften the insurance blow. Getting your CFI will also reduce your rates.

That said, in addition to a bunch of free-lance guys around the country that are great in a Pitts, there's Bud Davisson (airbum.com) who specializes in teaching 0-time Pitts pilots, and Chandler Air Service in AZ who even gives acro instruction in S-2Bs and Cs under Part 141! (GI bill)

3. When selecting a Pitts, the main things to look for are: engine times, fabric,wing (wood) condition, damage and acro history. If you hook up with the EAA International Aerobatic Club they have a great newsletter and can steer you to an IAC Chapter wherever you live , who in turn can recommend a knowledgeable Pitts mech who can give a good pre-buy inspection.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but I'd suggest joining the Experimental Aircraft Association and the IAC division to whet your appetite in the mean time.

 

[gaijin6423]

Nah, Mac loves that stuff. He was one of those fancy-pants, "aerospace engineers" in school, and does he ever look the part, too. We're talking Apollo 13 engineer chic here.

Sounds like Stearmann's got a plan for you Mac. If you do wind up buying one in the future, give me a call for that ride. Well, it's off to the airport to pick up the woman.

 

[bulldozer3]

have you looked into a homebuilt ? I helped my dad build a Van's Aircraft RV-8A (the tricycle version of the tail wheel RV-8). It took a few years to build just working weekends, but its vastly cheaper that buying a 25 year old cessna, and much better performance. 2 seat, 200 kts, fully aerobatic, etc.

He just recived the tail kit for the RV-10, a new 4-seater. should take about 2 years to build. They have quickbuild kits that take alot less time. And now all holes are pre-drilled, which makes it sooooo much easier.

One big point, since you built it, your the certified mechanic. No more paying some donkey to work on your plane. You can do all the inspections, work, annuals, etc. There are many differnt types of homebuild planes out there. Aluminum, composite, etc etc. Van's has always been the most popular and best bang for the buck.

Heres the website:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/

 

[McNamara]

Stearmann, I appreciate the advice. I've heard of Davisson's course, EAA, and the IAC, so I'll definitely look into them. I'll also certainly try to get in touch with the one Pitts owner I know (he's in a different situation than me though, as he competes and has a sponsor, plus a crapload of money). I've no intention to compete so the lower horsepower in the -2A suits me fine; I imagine it's also easier to handle on the ground with less torque.

I can see the benefits of building up tailwheel time in an easier airframe and getting my CFI ticket, but I'd have to weigh the costs and benefits. Owning another airplane to build up a few hundred hours would be rather expensive and time consuming just to get my insurance down. Ditto with upgrading to CFI. Unless the difference in insurance is really huge, I don't think I could stop myself from simply buying a Pitts as soon as I've got the training done and I can afford it. My main concern is safety, which is the biggest plus I see to racking up taildragger time in a different plane first.

I looked into homebuilding too. An acquaintance of mine has built at least one that I know of, but he's retired and has loads of space, money, tools, expertise, etc. I know it doesn't take that much money, but I'm short on everything else required including time. There are lots of cool designs out there though; those Van's look pretty nice too.

Honestly, if I'm pulling six G's or turning short final, I trust a mechanic that inspects planes and fixes engines for a living way more than I'd ever trust myself.

I'll continue the research and I'll probably join EAA eventually.

 

[mules83]

Also, with a pitts, look into where you are going to fly. With the prop all the way foward, its a screamer. I have issues in FL with the pitts i go up in with people on the ground
b!ithcing about the noise.

 

[McNamara]

Yeah, I've heard a thing or two about that. I didn't find much that I could understand in the FAR; could you tell me about the legal ramifications? Or do people simply complain with no real effect on your operations?

Is keeping the prop at a lower RPM an option, or is full forward required for certain regimes of flight?

 

[mules83]

Yeah, I've heard a thing or two about that. I didn't find much that I could understand in the FAR; could you tell me about the legal ramifications? Or do people simply complain with no real effect on your operations?

Is keeping the prop at a lower RPM an option, or is full forward required for certain regimes of flight?

There are no rules about noise in pitts to my knowledge. The problem with the pitts I fly is it belongs to a club and this club is somewhat a part of ERAU. When someone sees it, it is known to be flown by 'riddle kids' and people who complain call the school or the airport we fly out of. So we get flak from people that we have to kiss the feet of to make the operation run smoothly already.

Also with noise, you better find legal parts of the sky to do it in. If a person calls to complain about you being upside down high over their house and the FAA finds a victor airway also goes over the house, you are in deep poo poo. Thats a big problem over by daytona, there are victor airways all around and is hard to find an open area.

The prop is usually foward for t/o, landing and doing acro. It is the noisest during high rpm and high pitch (prop) which just so happens to be when you are doing acro.

There is a piper pawnee towplane we tow with (gliders) and after we release the glider and are diving back towards the ground (save time/money), we have to keep the prop at a certain rpm, or the prop breaks the speed of sound (really pisses off the town people)

 

[nittany03]

There is a piper pawnee towplane we tow with (gliders) and after we release the glider and are diving back towards the ground (save time/money), we have to keep the prop at a certain rpm, or the prop breaks the speed of sound (really pisses off the town people)

I imagine the prop doesn't like it too much either.

 

[Gatordev]

The prop is usually foward for t/o, landing and doing acro. It is the noisest during high rpm and high pitch (prop) which just so happens to be when you are doing acro.

Mules, Mules, Mules. Now that you've been selected, I can't let this slide again. We're not a bunch of tight-wearing pole riders (well, maybe the O-4s...). It's AERObatics, not acrobatics!!!