Long Tra'ng du'Kich -- A.K.A. WHITE FEATHER ... what caliber was his Winchester??

[A4sForever]

Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Norman Hathcock II, USMC ... May 20, 1942 - February 23, 1999

My question, to settle a difference of opinion, is what caliber was GYSGT Hathcock's Winchester pre-64 Model 70 rifle?? Don't tell me what the "book" by Chandler says, as some who have seen the rifle dispute the caliber put forth in that book.

ALSO ... what scope?? Unertl seems to be the consensus, even though I've read he used an 8X, a 12X, and a 20X -- and all supposedly in Vietnam. Obviously, someone is wrong. Also, another scope is a Redfield 3X9 on his M14 ... ??? But it's the Winchester and how it was set up that I'm most interested in ...

And since the GYSGT is no longer here to put the question to rest --- have any of YOU seen the rifle (the Winchester M70, possibly at the USMC museum??) or anywhere else and if so, can you verify the caliber and scope as it's presently set up .... ???

Thanks in advance.

 

[goosegagnon2]

Is this the man they called the "White Feather?"

*edit*

I'm a moron and didn't read the title

 

[A4sForever]

....I'm a moron ....

No problem-O, Junior ... as you may have noted, we have room for all God's chillen (ref urban dictionary, pls) on Air Warriors ... now, back to the caliber & scope for the Winchester ..... ???

 

[insanebikerboy]

Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Norman Hathcock II, USMC ... May 20, 1942 - February 23, 1999

My question, to settle a difference of opinion, is what caliber was GYSGT Hathcock's Winchester pre-64 Model 70 rifle?? Don't tell me what the "book" by Chandler says, as some who have seen the rifle dispute the caliber put forth in that book.

ALSO ... what scope?? Unertl seems to be the consensus, even though I've read he used an 8X, a 12X, and a 20X -- and all supposedly in Vietnam. Obviously, someone is wrong. Also, another scope is a Redfield 3X9 on his M14 ... ??? But it's the Winchester and how it was set up that I'm most interested in ...

And since the GYSGT is no longer here to put the question to rest --- have any of YOU seen the rifle (the Winchester M70, possibly at the USMC museum??) or anywhere else and if so, can you verify the caliber and scope as it's presently set up .... ???

Thanks in advance.

I remember reading an article shortly after his death that talked heavily about him using a Redfield 3x9 on a Winchester Model 70 .308. I was on a high school "field trip" to Quantico about that time so I'd hope the paper was pretty accurate.

Side note, I've always heard that the shot he made through another sniper's scope was photographed. I'd love to see the picture of that gun.

 

[Herc_Dude]

what caliber was GYSGT Hathcock's Winchester pre-64 Model 70 rifle??

I have read in other books, like "Marine Sniper" by Charles Henderson that it was a "match conditioned, .30-06 Springfield caliber, Model-70 Winchester" with a Monte Carlo-style stock, floated barrel, etc...
I'm not sure if this is going to help much, but thought I would throw it out there.
He also states that it was a Unertl scope, but I dont know about what kinda of mag it has.

 

[scoober78]

No hard evidence about the Vietnam rifles...only what I've read. The M70 he used at Camp Perry several times however, was chambered in .300 Win Mag and carried a Unertl scope...That one I have seen.

 

[Flathatter13]

While I have heard several stories about this man and topic on one particular trip while at AFSOC I was told by a Marine Recon group that he preferred the 30-06 to the 300 and 308, I want to say due to the fact that it was flater in flight but there might have been something else behind it as well.

My AC Commander was with me at the time I will email him to see if he remembers the complete story.

 

[A4sForever]

O.K. ... got the answer(s). Thanks to those who tried .... it's a good read, for those interested:

A TRIBUTE TO GUNNY HATHCOCK .. by John Feamster PRECISION SHOOTING - MARCH, 1996.

One paragraph in particular cracked me up, especially when some try to make shooting -- the fine art of precision rifle shooting (and it is an "art") an esoteric moment or a near "zen-like experience " ... i.e., I'm talking about precision shooting as it pertains to killing people ...

.... Did Carlos ever do any handloading while at Cherry Point?

"No, heavens no, they had people in the loading room that did that mess. I was the one that shot'em. I remember when I won the Wimbledon, and people gathered all around me," he recalled. "They had a lot of reporters up there, and they were sayin' this and askin' that.

The Gunner came over and said, 'He don't know nothin', he just shoots 'em! We give 'em to him, and he shoots 'em!'

And, that was the truth. I never worked on sticks [rifles] or built bullets, or nothing like that. My job was to launch 'em downrange...."

 

[Pugs]

Interesting that he considers 1 MOA accurate enough for a sniper rifle. Also interesting that the average police sniper shot is 83 yards.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Interesting that he considers 1 MOA accurate enough for a sniper rifle.

As the Red Baron once said, "It is not the crate, but the man flying it."

Carlos Hathcock is the guy that with one shot killed a NVA Officer with a .50 Cal from over a mile away. I'm guessing he knows what's accurate enough to be a sniper rifle.

 

[Pugs]

As the Red Baron once said, "It is not the crate, but the man flying it."

Carlos Hathcock is the guy that with one shot killed a NVA Officer with a .50 Cal from over a mile away. I'm guessing he knows what's accurate enough to be a sniper rifle.

Not saying he's not. I just though it interesting. He also points out that the target is belt buckle through to the head for the military sniper and head only for police. He notes his rifles in VN were sighted in for 700 yards. One MOA at 700 yards, atmospherics aside, is seven inches. Certainly enough for a miss even with a flawless driver.

These days there's little reason a bull barreled Synthetic stocked and well scoped rifle should not shoot 1/4 MOA with a decent load.

 

[A4sForever]

For those who didn't want to read the link (your loss), his caliber in Vietnam was .30-06 and the scope was a Unertl 8X .... he used "others", but this was his go-to-gun and scope set up and the one with which he became famous. None of the scopes were apparently totally satisfactory in the hot, humid jungle environment.

Some "experts" have claimed other calibers, but I think they are confusing them with what he used in competition when stateside. Think about it: there probably were only 3 readily available calibers to use with the demise of the M-14 from front-line issue in VN ... the .30 Carbine , the .30-06 , and 5.56 mm.

Which one (as used then) would a sniper choose .... ??? Or maybe it's even simpler: he just liked the .30-06.

The Winchester .30-06 with a wood stock and Unertl 8X scope. Simple, easy to maintain, easy to operate, deadly .. I guess there's a lesson there.

For his effort, sacrifice, dedication, and heroism, GYSGT Hathcock got a Silver Star. I can't believe he "only" got a Silver Star ...