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Life after training

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tairwait

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Can anyone give some information on life after training? I understand that you do 3 tours, at sea with your squadron, on shore as an instructor, at sea in some type of command. Are the last 2 manditory? For example could I do something else besides be an instructor on the second tour? During the second and third tours, how often do you fly? Finally do you have the option of going on to the astronaut program regardless of the type of aircraft you fly?

Thanks
Aspiring Naval Aviator

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Dave Shutter

Registered User
I've always had this question myself and have made it a point to ask officers, especially pilots, wherever I encounter them which is usually at air shows. They're not as inclined to give you the "sweet side" only, as recruiters tend to.

From what I've heard, yes, they do stick a shore tour in there after your first sea tour. I was depressed the first time I heard that. I wanna fly dammnit! I was then told that after about three years of flight school followed by three years of being a nugget in the fleet (with the current tempo of operations being what they are) that i'd be dying for a nice, slow, safe, 9-5 desk gig. Also I have read officer bio's on squadron websites and other places where guys have gotten stuck with shore tour, or even instructor duty in primary or advanced, before going to a RAG and out to sea. That's rare, but anything can happen.

If you want to do something else then fly on your shore tour you'll probably get your wish. Most pilots I've met say IP slots are hard to come by. Hornets for example, have two RAGS on each coast with only a handful of lucky instuctors each. Consider that there are around thirty Hornet squadrons in the fleet with over a dozen pilots each, not good odds for snaring IP.

I personally don't know much about the astronaut program, but everything I have ever read on the subject has included the phrases "advanced science degree", "tactical jet experience" and "selection for test pilot". Sound like a bit more than your average Naval Aviator goes through. But again, this is just what I have read, grain of salt.

The standard advice your going to get here from anyone is to get solid info from the most credible source. If astronaut is what you want to go for then I strongly suggest finding out exactly what's required before signing up for a decade or so of military service. Being an officer and flying are two great tastes that taste great together, but not if you don't want to be there.

Fly Navy!

D
 

tairwait

Registered User
Thanks Dave.
In terms of shore duty I definitely want to fly as much as possible. However, I am a computer engineer and if I'm not flying I would like to be doing something in that field. Is this heard of? As for becoming an astronaut it is a secondary dream of mine. I would be perfectly happy if I was stuck flying around in atmosphere for the rest of my life.
Also does anyone know of a flight sim that has some pretty realistic carrier landings. The adventure on FS2000 seems pretty weak.

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beau

Registered User
If you get stuck as an IP on your first tour in the Navy, do you get more priority to which flight community you go to next after the IP tour? My cousin is an IP in the Air Force and he informs me that he should get what he wants when finishs his IP tour. This makes me think that if the Navy is low on Jets for one week (if thats what you want), it would be better to take an IP tour if offered so you can get what you want in the long run. Is this right or am I full of SH#T.

Finch
 

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I forwarded this Forum question to LCDR Tim McGarvey, VS-35 Dept Head - San Diego, and just now recieved an answer that I thought you guys would be interested in.


From: "Tim McGarvey" <mcgarvey@san.rr.com>
To: <tairwait@yahoo.com>
Cc: "John Wickham" <JohnWickham@Airwarriors.com>
Subject: Re: Couple of questions

Aspiring Naval Aviator,

I have been a Naval Aviator for 12 years and am currently a Department =
Head in a West Coast S-3 Viking squadron. Your question was forwarded =
to me from John Wickham at airwarriors.com. Here's what your looking =
at:

Year 00 - GRADUATE COLLEGE

01 - Flight Training - Pensacola

01 - Advanced JET (F-18, F-14, EA-6B, S-3) Carrier Prop (E-2, =
C-2)Helicopter (SH-60F)or Maritime Patrol (P-3, C-130)

After training - clock starts for your active duty service obligation (I =
think its 8 years right now for pilots)

02 - Fleet Replacement Squadron (FRS) to learn the particular aircraft =
you select for...

03 - First Fleet Tour (3 years) woopee lots of fun as a "Junior Officer" =
or "JO" not much responsibility and lots of flying

06 - First Shore Tour (3 years)- You can do just about anything. TOP =
folks instruct at the FRS because its career enhancing and you fly a =
lot, middle and below folks instruct at Advanced Jet or the like. =
You'll fly the most as an instructor. This doesn't, however, prevent =
you from doing any of the things you asked about. There are openings in =
TEST PILOT SCHOOL, NASA astronaut program (especially for a technical =
degree like yourself), BLUE ANGELS, Navy Post Graduate School (Monterey =
CA). A good way to get an idea of what is available ...

Go to www.bupers.navy.mil

select "detailers"
select "Pers-43 Aviation Officer Distribution"
select "locate available jobs"

The site was under construction recently - check it out when they've =
finished and you'll be able to see the worldwide possibilities.

09 - Disassociated Sea Tour (2-3 years) - real bummer - get to be on a =
ship and not fly unless you are attached to a flying staff - like the =
Carrier Air Wing Commander (CAG) staff or the like. You could also do a =
staff tour in Washington or Joint tour somewhere in the states or =
overseas. Somewhere at this point your service obligation will be =
complete and you'll have the option to get out and "Go To The Show" =
(ie:airlines).

11 - Department Head tour (2 years)- in a sea going squadron (me right =
now) responsibilities start to pile up

13 - Post graduate education, Joint tour, Washington, Admirals staff, =
War College, etc

15 - Executive Officer / Commanding Officer - in a sea going squadron =
wearing the big pants - tons of responsibility & paperwork but probably =
the best tour anyone could have.

18 - Sea Tour - Department Head on a Carrier - Air Boss etc. - what =
can I say? It sucks to go to sea and not be flying!!

20 - Major Shore Command - Skipper of a base or something - you might =
even have your own personal jet!

22 - Major Sea Command - Air Wing Commander or Carrier Skipper (really =
wearing the big pants now!) Unbelievable responsibility - thousands of =
lives and billions of dollars.

Anyway - there's no real formula, everyone has different career paths =
but this is the basic idea. There are flying jobs and non-flying jobs. =
If you want to fly, there are jobs for you. If you want to geek out in =
engineering, there are jobs for you. If you want to be an astronaut, =
you can do that too. If you are smart enough and don't piss anyone off, =
you can pretty much do whatever you want. =20

If you have any other questions what-so-ever, do not hesitate to email =
me back. Be advised, I am deploying in 1 week on USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN =
and my email will change to tmcgar@lincoln.navy.mil

Best of luck in your future endeavors - keep in touch,

Tim McGarvey
LCDR / USN

Edited by - John Wickham on 13 August 2000
 

Dave Shutter

Registered User
From LCDR. McGarvey's post

quote:year 01 - Advanced JET (F-18, F-14, EA-6B, S-3) Carrier Prop (E-2, =
C-2)Helicopter (SH-60F)or Maritime Patrol (P-3, C-130)

After training - clock starts for your active duty service obligation (I =
think its 8 years right now for pilots)

year 02 - Fleet Replacement Squadron (FRS) to learn the particular aircraft =
you select for...

...does the time on your obligation start before your RAG assignment? I thought it started afterwards, when you were assigned to the fleet, or is it after you get winged?

D
 

ASUPilot

Registered User
When I was down in Pcola a few weeks ago here's what I was told as far as commitment goes...after wings, jets incur 8 years of commitment, maritime props incur 7, and helos incur 6. At the time I was there this was the most current gouge. As always with the Navy, it is subject to chenge without notice, LOL.

ASUPilot
 

drybean97

Registered User
quote:03 - First Fleet Tour (3 years) woopee lots of fun as a "Junior Officer" =
or "JO" not much responsibility and lots of flying

I am assuming that you are not away from home for the WHOLE 3 years at once. I am curious as to how much time is spent away from home in a single stretch.

Thanks


Gig'Em,

Drybean
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Drybean, a deployment generally speaking lasts 6 months, though some may last up to 8 months in length. You go through a post cruise down cycle, maintenance, and then a work up cycle that generally last a year to a year and a half to your next deployment. This is speaking in very broad terms, and not with respect to any specific community. So worst case you are looking at 2 deployments during a tour, most likely 1.
 

drybean97

Registered User
Thanks for the quick reply.

I was also wondering how much personal time you get while you are in training (after OCS). From what I have read there is a lot of material to learn during that time, and I am assuming that you spend a lot of your free time studying.

I am asking about the free time because of discussions I am having with my girlfriend about what kind of arrangements we are going to have while I am in training.

It is going to be bad enough that we will not get to see each other for the 3 months of OCS. We were hoping that it would be possible for her to move to whatever city I end up training in after API. Is training so intense that we would be better off if she stayed where she is? Are there breaks in the training where I would be able to visit her?

Also, if she did come with me, how reasonable is it to assume that I would be able to live with her(we are currently living together).

Thanks again

Gig'Em,

Drybean
 

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The Grass is Greener!
pilot
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Contributor
quote:
...would be able to live with her(we are currently living together).

Drybean,

Those are some good questions. From the Navy's point of view (post OCS), they could really care less where you live. Some guys live in the BOQ (Bachelor Officer's Quarters) on base, but a lot of single guys live out in town, sometimes a couple guys get together and rent a house or something. So yes, you could get a place out in town, and your girlfriend could come out and stay with you.

quote:
...how much personal time you get while you are in training (after OCS...

Well, that really depends on what point of training you are at, also how well you are understanding the material you are given. Like Matt said in one of his earlier posts, the training program is REALLY front loaded during each of the stages. For instance when you start the FAM flights, you are struggling to learn all the aspects of flying, course rules, comms, and the new material that comes with each brief. So you are going to be studying most of the time when you are not flying, plus teaming up with some studying partners to go over the material and quiz each other.

Also during API, and ground school, prior to getting into the plane, you are spending a lot of time learning material (unless you have prior flight time, or majored in Aero) that is completing foreign to you. While not difficult to learn, it is a lot to take in in such a short period of time, hence the "fire hose" effect.

I personally found that from my FAM13X checkride on, to be very easy for Primary training, and had quite a blast. That was just the "hump" for me, when it all just "clicked" and I went from thinking about what I was doing, to actually subconciously doing it, sort of like learning to drive a 5 speed for the first time, then that muscle memory kicks in and frees up more of those brain cells for other work in the cockpit. Same thing happened to me again here in Advanced training, it took me till around FAM6 in the T44 till I felt comfortable in the aircraft.

quote:Is training so intense that we would be better off if she stayed where she is? Are there breaks in the training where I would be able to visit her?

I think I have seen and heard of all sorts of different arrangements that guys have had with their girlfriends/wives while going through training. I personally don't think training is "so intense" that you guys should be apart, but I also think your girlfriend needs to have a really good understanding of what you are about to enter into. I sat my wife down and explained that I would be studying more than I ever did in college, plus group studying, and then the varying hours of your schedule when you actually get into flying. My wife was great about it all, and I made her a part of my "studying machine" so to speak. I still think she probably knows my EPs and checklists better than I do!

But throughout training, I have always made time to back off from the books, either going to the beach/pool, taking my wife out to dinner/dancing and a movie, you name it to free some stress up, and spend some quality time with the better half. It is all a balancing game, how much stress will the seperation cause you? Would it be better to have her here and helping you out? You know your relationship, and are going to have to make the call on that one. The other thing to keep in mind, is that she will more than likely be completely uprooted from family/friends. While you day in and day out will be meeting new people in the training program and busy studying while she may be left out there alone. Recommend finding the other guys in your class with wives and girlfriends and getting some phone numbers and getting them together, may help.

Whew, a long answer, I will get off my soap box now. Hope that helps answer your question, sure other people probably have their two cents to add in also.
 
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