Intro and Questions

[Nathan P]

Hello!

I found this site through Google and decided to sign up. A friend of mine is an F-18 squadron CO and after talking to him and one of the guys in his squadron I have been strongly considering the BDCP program. I just had a few questions, and although my local recruiter seems like a pretty straight up guy, I would like a few perfectly honest answers from those that don't have anything to gain from me signing up.

First I'll give you my stats:
-Cal Poly San Luis Obispo Aerospace Engineering
-3.3 GPA, Deans List 2 quarters.
-Member of Campus Service club
-Member of local church's leadership scholarship program
-Team leader of a winning design for our Intro to Aero class, member of another group design project that recieved excellent marks in Intro to Design.
-6'3" 180 lbs and gaining muscle, working out 3 times a week with swimming on the two off days inbetween
-No police record
-No drug use, period
-No underage drinking
-No medical problems
-20/20 vision

I am wondering what I can do to give myself the best chances of becoming a pilot, preferrably of an attack aircraft (F/A-18 would be my first choice) and if that fails, what to put as my secondary to get into UAV operations as that is my secondary interest. I hope you guys don't take offense to that. Also, when do I select what I "want" to do? Does that happen now or when I go into OCS?

So far I've gathered:
-My recruiter is my best friend right now
-Don't get into trouble with the law
-Keep my grades up
-Keep in shape
-Do as much leadership and technical stuff out of school as I can
-Get everything in promptly and wait for the results!

Thanks for any input!
Nathan

 

[MIDNJAC]

First I'll give you my stats:
-Cal Poly San Luis Obispo Aerospace Engineering
-3.3 GPA, Deans List 2 quarters.
-Member of Campus Service club
-Member of local church's leadership scholarship program
-Team leader of a winning design for our Intro to Aero class, member of another group design project that recieved excellent marks in Intro to Design.
-6'3" 180 lbs and gaining muscle, working out 3 times a week with swimming on the two off days inbetween
-No police record
-No drug use, period
-No underage drinking
-No medical problems
-20/20 vision

Overall your stats look decent enough, may want to try and bump that GPA up a little bit as BDCP can be pretty competitive that way. You need to take the ASTB which will also be another big part of your application package, and one thing that they will use to judge your package. I wouldn't lean too heavily on your Engr 101 class project(s), most people know those things are kind of a joke (no offense), though of course keep up the good work! Your physical stature is not really of much concern provided you aren't a fat a** and you can do well on the PRT. Since I don't know what the "Campus Service Club" is, then I guess maybe they wouldn't either....good description should be included. Otherwise, stay out of trouble with the law, keep up the hard work, bust your butt for the best grades and ASTB scores possible, and work on maybe throwing in one or two good extracurriculars that show you can be well rounded and at the same time remain focused on your job (school). Don't do anything that doesn't interest you, just for the sake of resume/package building.

I am wondering what I can do to give myself the best chances of becoming a pilot, preferrably of an attack aircraft (F/A-18 would be my first choice) and if that fails, what to put as my secondary to get into UAV operations as that is my secondary interest. I hope you guys don't take offense to that. Also, when do I select what I "want" to do? Does that happen now or when I go into OCS?

Beyond getting selected for BDCP as an SNA, there is nothing you can do to really help or hinder your chances of getting a specific aircraft. You will make that selection well beyond OCS graduation, in-part following completion of primary flight training (either helos, tailhook, P-3's, or E-6's), and you will select your actual aircraft specifically at the end of advanced when you get wings. If you are strongly considering UAV's or jets, I would honestly say that the USAF will give you the best chance of getting one or the other. We have a pretty limited UAV flying population at the moment, and it is not a selection option coming out of flight school. The AF on the other hand selects UAV pilots from their pool of jet school graduates, in other words you finish with them in the T-38 and may end up in F-15/16/22 or UAV's.

So far I've gathered:
-My recruiter is my best friend right now
-Don't get into trouble with the law
-Keep my grades up
-Keep in shape
-Do as much leadership and technical stuff out of school as I can
-Get everything in promptly and wait for the results!

Thanks for any input!
Nathan

Yes, good set of priorities.

 

[Nathan P]

So if flying jets or UAV's were the ONLY things I wanted to do you would suggest USAF? The Navy seems to have a large number of F-18 in service. Is the fact that I want a certain type of aircraft the deciding factor here or if I'm focusing on Aviation is the Airforce a better bet in general? I had been told that the Navy actually had a larger airfleet than the Airforce, but that may be for cargo/surveillance/etc. and not fighters.

Does the Airforce have a program similar to BDCP, and if so does anyone know where I could get info on it? The only thing I could find was the SMART program.

My GPA was 3.46 until last quarter, I bit off a bit more than I could chew. Should be consistantly going up/staying up from here as I think I've figured out how I need to study to do well in the program at this point. I've been told that anything over 3.0 is considered impressive in my major here at Cal Poly so I hope I can continue.

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[MIDNJAC]

So if flying jets or UAV's were the ONLY things I wanted to do you would suggest USAF? The Navy seems to have a large number of F-18 in service. Is the fact that I want a certain type of aircraft the deciding factor here or if I'm focusing on Aviation is the Airforce a better bet in general? I had been told that the Navy actually had a larger airfleet than the Airforce, but that may be for cargo/surveillance/etc. and not fighters.

I can't really tell you which would be a better choice for you, but keep in mind that only ~ 30% or so of Naval Aviators fly jets (split between F/A-18C/D/E/F and EA-6B), compared to the other ~70% that fly something else. If you think you would be absolutely miserable in helos or P-3's, then maybe you would want to look more strongly at some other career path. That said, at this point in life you really have no idea what any of those different communities are like, so it may pay to do a little searching on this forum and picking brains about things. The Air Force of course has a lot of other responsibilities aside from just flying fighters, so yes, they would also not promise you a jet. Bottom line is that nothing is guaranteed in this business, and even if you really work hard and do well, you still might not get your #1 choice. Navy or AF, you will have to deal with that reality when the time comes. I would focus right now on deciding which service interests you more in general, and which one you would want to fly for, period. Getting more specific than that is going to be a waste of time, and might prevent you from considering more important things in making your decision.

Does the Airforce have a program similar to BDCP, and if so does anyone know where I could get info on it? The only thing I could find was the SMART program.

Not sure about this, although maybe someone who knows will respond here.

 

[torpedo0126]

So if flying jets or UAV's were the ONLY things I wanted to do you would suggest USAF?

~50% of the Navy is composed of helicopters. The other 50% is a mix of F/A-18s, P-3s, C-2s, E-2s, E-6s. There are others (sorry don't mean to offend anyone, just serving a point) in that mix, but the point is that a significant % of the fleet is helicopters.

You are definitely NOT the first young buck who has said "I want to fly F/A-18s" or "I want to fly jets." Its competitive and demands a lot of hardwork an tenacity. You also have to realize you may not get what you want. If you can 1) deal with that; 2) be thrilled with the idea of being a Naval Aviator; and 3) recognize that almost everyone LOVES what they fly, you should pursue this opportunity.

The Navy seems to have a large number of F-18 in service.

As I pointed out above, most of the fleet is helos. There are plenty of tactical jets, but remember, there are plenty of manning requirements for the rest of the fleet.

Is the fact that I want a certain type of aircraft the deciding factor here or if I'm focusing on Aviation is the Airforce a better bet in general?

I don't know how selection in the Air Force works, but remember the same idea applies to the Air Force. Not everyone is going to get jets in the Air Force. The AF has a big variety of aircraft too, and not all of them are F-15s or F-16s.

However, I can tell you that if you want UAVs you will have a pretty good success rate in the Air Force. According to the AF guys who were in my API class approximately 50% of jet selectees will have a UAV assignment first. (sorry I can't if its jet selectees or something else. I will shoot them an email and find)

 

[Nathan P]

I know that in the Airforce, what aircraft you end up with is pretty much solely based on how well you do in flight school. They have a certain number of each aircraft available per graduating class, and they go down the list from highest scorers to lowest and everyone gets to pick what they want based on their scores and what's left by those above them. Does the Navy's process work in a similar fashion?

I've just historically not had much interest in transports/helicopters, although the Cobra is a magnificent machine.

 

[torpedo0126]

yes and no. High scores ideally will have a better chance of getting want they want, but it depends on what is available.

Also, I am pretty sure that a quality spread exists in the Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force. You can't have the best students all go into one field and the worst go into another. I am not sure how this works. Maybe it balances out in the AF and they don't need it.

I would avoid using phrases like "I know," especially when people in the system aren't even sure (like myself).

I'm sure someone else will chime in about this.

 

[Nathan P]

Sorry, I'll be careful with that.

My intuition tells me that the quality of anyone who makes it through Pilot training is going to be relatively high.

 

[m26]

My intuition tells me that the quality of anyone who makes it through Pilot training is going to be relatively high.

Would you rather hire the lawyer who finished first in his class from Yale, or the guy who finished last in his class from Yale? Both may be hot stuff, but there's a difference.

 

[Nathan P]

Would you rather hire the lawyer who finished first in his class from Yale, or the guy who finished last in his class from Yale? Both may be hot stuff, but there's a difference.

Oh I'm not disputing that fact, I was just saying that my guess is that to pass you have to be at least proficient in any aircraft you may be selected for. Be it a C-5 or F-15, each requires a high level of skill to operate.

Back to the Navy side of things, besides being a Naval Air Officer, what are some good options for an engineering student to look at? My main concern is that if I don't do something related to aircraft that my hiring opportunities out of the service will be limited.

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[HeyJoe]

What's a poor engineeer to do?

Back to the Navy side of things, besides being a Naval Air Officer, what are some good options for an engineering student to look at?

I have to admit that the Air Force has a better entry level option for Aero types to work in Acquisition or Research Laboratory locations like Edwards, Eglin, Rome or Hansom (to name a few). You can even attend Test Pilot School as a Flight Test Engineer. Navy doesn't offer same opportunity for similar entry level unless you want to be a civil servant.

My main concern is that if I don't do something related to aircraft that my hiring opportunities out of the service will be limited.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but to humor you, exactly how long were you planning to stay in the service?

 

[Nathan P]

I'm not sure time wise, but I was just worried that with the technical nature of my major and hopeful career path not doing anything related for 4+ years wouldn't be so great.

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[HeyJoe]

I'm not sure time wise, but I was just worried that with the technical nature of my major and hopeful career path not doing anything related for 4+ years wouldn't be so great.

Thanks,
Nathan

Depends on what you want to do. I'd argue that getting exposed to military leadership opportunities might open even more doors. BTW - If you want to fly, you realize you'll be away from direct exposure to engineering is going be a lot more than 4 years?

Here's another way to look at your prospects, there are no age restrictions per se to enter into engineering related jobs, but you have a relatively narrow window to get yourself into a cockpit. That can put you into paths you'd never have a shot it as well as opportunity to obtain postgrad degree at NPS or Test Pilot School.