-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Ingenuity Helo On Mars
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
⎎⍜⍀⏁⊬ ⏁⍙⍜
I found it interesting that a human couldn't hand fly it in Mars atmospheric conditions (super low density).
A friend of mine is working on the helicopter that is going to land on Titan. There, the atmosphere is thicker than Earth's and the gravity lower. You could almost flap your arms and fly?
A friend of mine is working on the helicopter that is going to land on Titan. There, the atmosphere is thicker than Earth's and the gravity lower. You could almost flap your arms and fly?
More likely due to the signal latency than the atmosphere.
No, it was the behavior of the copter in the low density air, simulated in a chamber. It was flyable otherwise in Earth density air.
I don't really understand the physics behind why it was less naturally stable, just that the autopilot had to be carefully crafted.
But now I'm going to find out.
Edit: this didn't answer my question (maybe its a BS question?) , but talks through the configuration and operating modes.
What Weâre Learning About Ingenuityâs Flight Control and Aerodynamic Performance - NASA
Before each of Ingenuity’s test flights, we upload instructions that describe precisely what the flight should look like. But when it comes time to fly, the helicopter is on its own and relies on a set of flight control algorithms that we developed here o
mars.nasa.gov
Found it. Higher math involved!
Last edited:
Are you suggesting that the craft could otherwise be hand flown from Earth with a ~15 minute lag in signal, were it not for the unique aerodynamic environment? That, I would argue, is your show stopper. Accounting for any aerodynamic/gravitational eccentricities are already inherent in the FCS, since they can clearly command it to do what they want.No, it was the behavior of the copter in the low density air, simulated in a chamber. It was flyable otherwise in Earth density air.
I don't really understand the physics behind why it was less naturally stable, just that the autopilot had to be carefully crafted.
But now I'm going to find out.
Edit: this didn't answer my question (maybe its a BS question?) , but talks through the configuration and operating modes.
What Weâre Learning About Ingenuityâs Flight Control and Aerodynamic Performance - NASA
Before each of Ingenuity’s test flights, we upload instructions that describe precisely what the flight should look like. But when it comes time to fly, the helicopter is on its own and relies on a set of flight control algorithms that we developed here o
Found it. Higher math involved!
While we're at it, we should probably define "hand flown." I define it as human makes input to FCS, and FCS interprets human intent and makes the aircraft do that.
I agree that the latency makes it physically impossible to hand fly this from earth.
As for hand fly, a traditional helicopter you 100% control the rotor head by hand, with augmentation from the AFCS. There are some flight modes where you can let the AFCS fly the helo hands off (I.e, auto-hover). In Ingenuity, it’s as you said.
A FBW helo operates how Brett described; you wiggle the sticks and those inputs go to the FCCs that then interpret your inputs and tell the head what to do.
Yeah, I understand how it works. To be more accurate, I believe right now Bell has the only civilian certified FBW helo and I think the CH53K is the only mil helo that’s FBW (there’s probably a few foreign ones I’m missing). In other words, in the vast majority of helos the pilot physically moves the rotor head.
FWIW, in heavy helos that require hydraulic boost, it’s tongue in cheek referred to as fly-by-oil.
53K, V-22 and some versions of the S-92 are FBW. I also think some of the newer 60s are as well. Not sure about newer H-47s.
Oh lord No. You can’t even do it with a quarter second latency, I bet. Time delay is highly destabilizing.
By hand flown I mean direct control of the cyclic and collective, no augmentation.
We build small UAS from scratch, and it is the rare rotary that isn’t heavily augmented. Too hard to fly otherwise. But a cheap Pixhawk will give you a graduated set of control modes from attitude hold up to waypoint waypointing.
Learn something everyday, didn’t realize that many were now FBW!
I like my helos like I like my coffee, no FBW.
To be serious, I know the tech is great and has been proven, but it's always made the hairs on my neck stand up. Probably just my ignorance of the FBW systems and redundancies, and also seeing and experiencing wiring and electrical problems on the shitter I flew (70/80's tech). Also, the environments and levels of maint support they're operated in.
I'm probably a Luddite regarding this issue. But, goddamit, I would want a mechanical link to that rotorhead.
To be serious, I know the tech is great and has been proven, but it's always made the hairs on my neck stand up. Probably just my ignorance of the FBW systems and redundancies, and also seeing and experiencing wiring and electrical problems on the shitter I flew (70/80's tech). Also, the environments and levels of maint support they're operated in.
I'm probably a Luddite regarding this issue. But, goddamit, I would want a mechanical link to that rotorhead.