Hearing Protection

[MasterBates]

Yeah, if the B had the digital BDHI like the F, you could get rid of the grimes lights.. But you still have to have your secondary lights up, since there are NO NVG compatible lights in the cockpit, aside from some ATO Keysets and the occasional AFCS Control Panel.

The rest have the "Ghetto Filters" or you have to use the grimes light/secondary lights to see them.

 

[Gatordev]

Yeah, what MB said. That was what I was getting at. All the extra stuff (keyset, filtered MC panel, secondary lights) are pretty innocuous, but the map lights really stand out. Such is the life of being the fat kid.

 

[Skeet]

Ok, been looking around for a while now at different ways of preventing hearing loss (or at least slowing it) while flying helos. Earplugs are always an option but the problem comes when flying with instructors / other pilots who aren't wearing earplugs and turn the radios down.

All the guys here use Bose. They're comfortable and they work. No *hit. If you want the best try them.

 

[ghost]

It doesn't have to do with the mods in the cockpit. I try to fly with the lights as dark as possible in a compatible cockpit -- it has to do with people seeing your liplight outside the cockpit. Wouldn't want someone on a ship you were checking out to see you because of your lip light.

You have obviously not seen the bravo "NVG lighting." I would not describe it as NVG compatible. Basically you turn off all the lights in the cockpit off. Turn on these little flood light on the instrument panel that are not in standard locations and generally light up empty areas of the panel only. You are supposed to use the utility lights to shine on the instrument panel to illuminate the dark areas, but they are not bright enough (too far away) and tend to move on their own. Typically you can not read the radalt, DME / doppler, CDI, and VSI with the standard approved lighting.

Since I like to know how high I am off the water, I scan the radalt a lot at night. To get around the bad lighting situation in the bravo, there are three different techniques people tend to use. One is to leave the instrument lights on even though they are not NVG compatible. This tends to create glare problems that are worse in low light conditions. The second method is to use the lip light to illuminate the panel when you are looking at it. This means leaving your lip light on for the whole flight if you want to maintain your instrument scan (a requirement over water). The last option people choose is to use some sort of NVG compatible light to clip onto the glareshield, kneeboard, or whatever to illuminate the panel. These lights are generally just as visible as the lip lights.

As for the a boat seeing my lip light: the lip lights are generally visible at 1 - 2 nm (if you know where to look, I have a decent amount of experience seeing them from the back of the boat in the LSO shack). If I am going inside of 2 miles of a potentially hostile boat, they are going to know I am there anyway. There is no good reason to hang out just one to two miles away. While not using the liplight might be nice, I feel it is more important to keep the aircraft out of the water.

-ghost

 

[hscs]

You can see the lights further away than 2 miles.....

 

[phrogpilot73]

You can see the lights further away than 2 miles.....

I think you missed the point of "if you know where to look", we trucked out into the field one night to do some tests and knew exactly where to look - had trouble picking them up on a high light night inside two miles. On a low light night, we could pick them up at about 5 miles. Of course, that's because we knew where to look.

 

[hscs]

I didn't miss that point -- my point was why unnecessarily expose yourself -- whether or not Haji knows where to look.

 

[MasterBates]

I didn't miss that point -- my point was why unnecessarily expose yourself -- whether or not Haji knows where to look.

Because in a Bravo, unless you have 100% faith in AFCS and RADALT HOLD, you need the Grimes or lip lights to see your gauges to aviod CFIT.

Just how it is there...

 

[Gatordev]

All the guys here use Bose. They're comfortable and they work. No *hit. If you want the best try them.

If you read the thread, you'll see why that's not an option. They're not approved gear and they stop working almost immediately on the boat.

@hscs:

Why not just accept that we're limited by our gear? We're not a CSAR asset, and the one mission where we actually are used next to Haji/Pedro, the mission calls for us to be seen and heard. As everyone here has said, there are far more pressing light concerns for the Bravo than Johnny 2P's lip light.

 

[hscs]

I am not worried about CSAR or overland, but combined overwater missions where you all could blow by being seeing....

 

[phrogpilot73]

I am not worried about CSAR or overland, but combined overwater missions where you all could blow by being seeing....

What type of overland are you talking about? Seems to me that I'd be more worried about overland (in this day and age) than anything else... In case you haven't noticed, helos are getting shot down left and right. That's why I religiously disconnected the battery on my lip light. If anyone knows about the tactical implications of being seen, it is I...

 

[hscs]

My last comment was in reference to the fact that the different -60s would not work together overland. And yes, I have noticed the shootdowns, and I am far more worried about overland issues.

 

[phrogpilot73]

My last comment was in reference to the fact that the different -60s would not work together overland. And yes, I have noticed the shootdowns, and I am far more worried about overland issues.

Would not work together overland? OK, I'll give you that - although I have seen 60B's work overland. While they're not as "experienced" (no offense to my Navy brethern) as I am, and I am not nearly as "experienced" as Stearmann (look at his customer), they can work overland. As for you being "far more worried about overland issues" you're starting to contradict yourself:

I am not worried about CSAR or overland, but combined overwater missions where you all could blow by being seeing....

Based on that, all you give a sh!t about are overwater missions utilizing both 60B's, 60F's, 60S's and 60R's (no, I don't know if the Romeo is fielded yet, but give me a break, I'm a Marine). I don't see many IAD's overwater, and I don't see many Hajji's waiting for you to be PREDICTABLE while flying feet wet. We generally view feet wet as sanctuary, as almost every Naval Aviator should.

As for limitations in platforms:

While not using the liplight might be nice, I feel it is more important to keep the aircraft out of the water.

Why not just accept that we're limited by our gear? We're not a CSAR asset, and the one mission where we actually are used next to Haji/Pedro, the mission calls for us to be seen and heard. As everyone here has said, there are far more pressing light concerns for the Bravo than Johnny 2P's lip light.

Because in a Bravo, unless you have 100% faith in AFCS and RADALT HOLD, you need the Grimes or lip lights to see your gauges to aviod CFIT.

In answer to MasterBates, while I know Mr. Boeing is a better pilot than me, I still don't trust AFCS and RADALT HOLD based on seeing them fail one too many times...

I don't know what your background is, or what level of experience you have... But I will restate the OBVIOUS, it's personal preference. Proffesionalism dictates when you turn it on or off...

 

[hscs]

I am not worried about overland working with the -60B....

The missions that we would work together would be overwater, and yes, I am talking about a particular overwater mission -- and that is all that I will mention.