Growler "Golden Path"

[SpeckledTrout]

Longtime caller new listener,

I'm just a young, dumb, dude who's applying for this year's direct-commission NFO board - my recruiter (a Chief and diver who pointed me here) said I have a decent shot, and I just want to stay humble about any chance I've got. That said, being optimistic, naïve, and hopeful, I already want to start making plans and asking questions way out of my depth.

Assuming everything works out great, I can get my ass selected, trundle through OCS, get to Pensacola, and perform well enough to get picked up for the Growler, what's next? The basic outline I've been able to work out is RAGs, do your job for a few years, teach your job for a few years, do a non-flying job, then go lead a squadron (if you've done it all right). Where's the room for extra training - at Fallon or Whidbey - and who's getting picked up for that? How does transition into the Reserve work? What can the wife expect with moving - is that something we can exercise a modicum of control over? How's life in or around Whidbey?

Cheers, thanks in advance for any wisdom dispensed.

 

[HAL Pilot]

direct-commission NFO board

Just a correction. It's not a direct commission. A direct commission is when they swear you in and give you the rank on the spot without attending OCS, ROTC or the Academy. It's basically for specialized skills, not pilot, NFOs, SWOs, bubbleheads or any line officers. Mostly medical specialists but some IT and reserve billets.

 

[cfam]

First off, welcome, and good luck with getting selected!

Regarding your question, your idea of the career path is generally correct.

As a Growler EWO, after winging you’ll first go to VAQ-129 (the RAG or FRS) for your initial training in the jet (expect it to last around 10 months or so). After 129, you’ll go to your first fleet squadron, which could be expeditionary (land-based during deployment) or an air wing squadron (carrier based during deployment). A typical first fleet tour lasts three years.

Your next stop will be your first shore tour, which also typically lasts around three years.
The typical (and most career-enhancing) first shore tour jobs include: instructing at VAQ-129, going to the weapons school course for three months (aka HAVOC, the VAQ community’s version of TOPGUN) with follow-on orders to instruct at Fallon or back up at Whidbey, becoming a flight school instructor (most likely at VT-86 in Pensacola), or going to test pilot school (TPS), with follow-on orders to a test squadron. There are certainly other options available, but they’ll have varying impacts on your career progression.

Following your shore tour, you’ll most likely head to a disassociated sea tour. Assuming you’re still “on-track” at this point, you’ll most likely head to an air wing staff to be their staff EWO (which is a flying job). If you went the weapons school route, then you would go back to a squadron as their training officer, responsible for tactical standardization and tactical qualifications. Depending on your timing, there may also be the option to go to a fleet squadron as a “super JO (junior officer)”, which would essentially be a shorter second fleet tour.

Your next tour would be your Department Head (DH) tour in a squadron (between two-three years), where you would fly but also have the added responsibility of running a department such as maintenance or operations. Think of this as a step up in responsibility/workload from your first fleet tour, where you likely had responsibility for a division of maintenance personnel in addition to your flying job.

After your DH tour, you’ll likely go to a staff job (non-flying orders) for around two years. Assuming you’ve performed to a high level to this point, you’ll be selected for squadron command around this time.

Your staff tour will then be followed by a three year long squadron command tour, where you’ll spend half the time as the squadron executive officer (XO) and the other half as the commanding officer (CO).

That’s a really quick look at the VAQ pipeline until command. Obviously I didn’t include non-standard jobs. There may also be opportunities to attend grad school or the naval war college along the way depending on your specific timing.

The first time you would be eligible to transition to the reserves would be following your six year post-wings commitment. If you want to keep flying as a reservist, then your only options are to be picked up for orders at VAQ-209 (the sole Growler reserve squadron) or as a reserve instructor at VAQ-129.

More to follow on your other questions.

 

[cfam]

So as far as quality of life and moving are concerned...

Unless you get orders to the single Growler squadron in Japan, it is possible to live in Whidbey all the way through your initial six year commitment. This would mean that you got shore tour orders to VAQ-129 or you went to HAVOC and then received orders to instruct back at Whidbey. This would obviously preclude going to test pilot school or instructing down in Fallon.

You should expect to move for your disassociated sea tour if you are going the CVW EWO route (most likely to Lemoore, CA or Virginia Beach, VA).

You’ll be back in Whidbey (or potentially in Japan) for your DH tour. You’ll have to move for your staff tour, and then you’ll be back in Whidbey (or Japan) for command.

The easiest way to have more of a say in where you end up is to be a top performer in every tour. That being said, it also will come down to things that are out of your control like timing and the needs of the Navy.

Bottom line: you’ll spend a large portion of your career in Whidbey (at least through your command tour).

I think living in Whidbey is great, but I also know people that hate it. Expect the weather to be largely cloudy/drizzly for 8 months of the year, with three beautiful months of sunshine and 70 degree weather in the summer. The outdoor recreational opportunities are unbeatable (water on your doorstep, and mountains within 90 minutes). The area itself is fairly rural (around two hours from Seattle with traffic), and it’s definitely small town living, but it’s pretty much equidistant to both Seattle and Vancouver. Cost of living is inexpensive compared to Seattle, but it has gotten much more expensive to buy in the past few years, and that looks like the trend going forward.

Once you’re above the clouds, the flying here is incredible, especially the low-level routes through the Cascades. The professional community itself can be a bit insular given that all of the squadrons are based up here, but it’s also tight-knit as a result. The career field is only expanding as the jet gets more capability, so it’s definitely the place to be for an NFO for the foreseeable future.

All that being said, I would definitely recommend getting out of Whidbey for a tour as a JO if you have the option (and your career progression and wife can handle it). Staying in Whidbey the entire time can wall you off to the rest of the Navy, and the additional exposure/perspective you get from leaving the mothership for a tour is invaluable. For example, although Fallon certainly isn’t a garden spot, I thoroughly enjoyed my shore tour there, and I gained a better appreciation for how the Growler community fits into the big picture.

I hope that’s helpful. I wasn’t sure what you meant by “extra training” so I’ll reattack that if you can clarify.

Keep the questions coming!

 

[Jim123]

If I weren't familiar with naval aviation then I'd think subject line was something from Urban Dictionary.

 

[Gonzo08]

You should expect to move for your disassociated sea tour if you are going the CVW EWO route (most likely to Lemoore, CA or Virginia Beach, VA).

Not necessarily true. All the West Coast (Lemoore) air wings currently let their CVW EWO continue to live in Whidbey and fly with their air wing's Growler squadron. I'll have lived in Whidbey for 12 years before I have to move for my post-DH job.

That being said:

All that being said, I would definitely recommend getting out of Whidbey for a tour as a JO if you have the option (and your career progression and wife can handle it). Staying in Whidbey the entire time can wall you off to the rest of the Navy, and the additional exposure/perspective you get from leaving the mothership for a tour is invaluable. For example, although Fallon certainly isn’t a garden spot, I thoroughly enjoyed my shore tour there, and I gained a better appreciation for how the Growler community fits into the big picture.

I 100% endorse this statement.

 

[Ghost SWO]

Can anyone point me to a similar thread for the naval aviator golden path? I've only come across mentions of it but haven't seen it laid out like it was here.

 

[Brett327]

Can anyone point me to a similar thread for the naval aviator golden path? I've only come across mentions of it but haven't seen it laid out like it was here.

It's 95% the same. Only significant difference is the possibility of a CAG paddles route for LSOs as a second sea tour. Most Growler Pilots and EWOs will have identical career paths.

 

[cfam]

Not necessarily true. All the West Coast (Lemoore) air wings currently let their CVW EWO continue to live in Whidbey and fly with their air wing's Growler squadron. I'll have lived in Whidbey for 12 years before I have to move for my post-DH job.

That being said:

I 100% endorse this statement.

Good to know! I knew it happened occasionally, but wasn't sure if it was guaranteed these days.

 

[HAL Pilot]

If I weren't familiar with naval aviation then I'd think subject line was something from Urban Dictionary.

 

[SpeckledTrout]

I hope that’s helpful. I wasn’t sure what you meant by “extra training” so I’ll reattack that if you can clarify.

Keep the questions coming!

I wasn't sure I was missing some sort of training event (a la USAF-style school based on org. leadership, like SOS or ACSC ) that would open/close doors. I'm still totally uninitiated, and in the back of my mind, I'm hoping there's a career path that can slow the inevitable slide into higher leadership by focusing on how to make your flyers a more lethal bunch.

What does is mean to be a great JO, whether that be deployed or at home station? I'd imagine JO queep is largely scrutinized but low-impact, and flying takes precedence - how soon can one start displaying the qualities of an instructor (is that an IEWO? EWOI? IWO?)?

Is it at all realistic to place VAQ-209 as a 6-or-12 year 'ending' to active duty? How does their way of doing things differ from the AD squadrons, badass patch aside? Is someone who goes graduates HAVOC too much of an asset to the Navy to be allowed to then proceed directly into the Reserve?

 

[SpeckledTrout]

Bonus question: is there an objective preference between boat and concrete squadrons?

 

[Pags]

I wasn't sure I was missing some sort of training event (a la USAF-style school based on org. leadership, like SOS or ACSC ) that would open/close doors. I'm still totally uninitiated, and in the back of my mind, I'm hoping there's a career path that can slow the inevitable slide into higher leadership by focusing on how to make your flyers a more lethal bunch.

What does is mean to be a great JO, whether that be deployed or at home station? I'd imagine JO queep is largely scrutinized but low-impact, and flying takes precedence - how soon can one start displaying the qualities of an instructor (is that an IEWO? EWOI? IWO?)?

Is it at all realistic to place VAQ-209 as a 6-or-12 year 'ending' to active duty? How does their way of doing things differ from the AD squadrons, badass patch aside? Is someone who goes graduates HAVOC too much of an asset to the Navy to be allowed to then proceed directly into the Reserve?

I assume from your name and the questions in here that you have an AF background. USN does things completely differently with officer career path.

Being a good JO means doing your ground job and airplane job well. Which is an easy sentence to write but that involves a lot of competing requirements on the part of the JO.

 

[SpeckledTrout]

I assume from your name and the questions in here that you have an AF background. USN does things completely differently with officer career path.

My old man's the Air Force guy, I just tried to soak up the stories and do my due diligence!

 

[Brett327]

I wasn't sure I was missing some sort of training event (a la USAF-style school based on org. leadership, like SOS or ACSC ) that would open/close doors. I'm still totally uninitiated, and in the back of my mind, I'm hoping there's a career path that can slow the inevitable slide into higher leadership by focusing on how to make your flyers a more lethal bunch.

What does is mean to be a great JO, whether that be deployed or at home station? I'd imagine JO queep is largely scrutinized but low-impact, and flying takes precedence - how soon can one start displaying the qualities of an instructor (is that an IEWO? EWOI? IWO?)?

Is it at all realistic to place VAQ-209 as a 6-or-12 year 'ending' to active duty? How does their way of doing things differ from the AD squadrons, badass patch aside? Is someone who goes graduates HAVOC too much of an asset to the Navy to be allowed to then proceed directly into the Reserve?

Couple of comments. The best opportunity to focus on platform lethality is to go to HAVOC for your first shore tour, where you will focus on developing and validating new tactics, and influencing investments in future capabilities through the acquisitions process. You will also be instructing the instructors, so this is one of the best opportunities to exercise those skills. A tour at HAVOC will incur additional service obligation (the completion of a second sea tour as a squadron training officer), and will keep you on the path for future leadership opportunities. I'm the CO at HAVOC, so feel free to PM me if you have more detailed questions on what we do.

Don't count on a spot being available for you at 209. Those spots are usually 1-2 each year for EWOs and there's lots of competition for those.

For Boat vs. Exped - you'll likely get to do each if you stick around for a while, so it all evens out. Both have very important roles to play.