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Flight Surgeon??

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mizzoufan

Registered User
Currently I have been debating whether to try to get a pilot slot in the Navy or go to med school. I am already accepted into medical school and am starting to lean that way. I wanted to know if anyone knew much about the Navy's flight surgeon program or if there was any other way to combine both medicine and aviation? Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but wanted to see if anyone had any input.
 

kevin

Registered User
i think we talked about this briefly before....i was heading that way too. i have very mixed feelings, but one thing about medicine is how (unnecessarily) consuming it is. the good old boys run the show (older generation doctors) who dont care about having a life, and really dont give a rat's ass if anyone else does or not ("i did it that way, so you should too"). there's a lot more awareness now about quality of life for med students/residents/attendings, but doesnt seem to change much. it wont get any better....the ratio of patients to doctors is rising EXPONENTIALLY....so who's going to take care of them? my sister is in her intern year in EM, and i see her about 4 times a year (lives an hour away). the problem is, unless you have the balls to stand up and say im not going to live like that when you're done with residency, it never changes....somewhat depending on what specialty you pick. but the trauma surgeons i work with have the most ****ed up lives you can imagine. if i wanted to spend that much time in a hospital, id just become an 80 year old chemo patient. on the flip side, you probably have a much more "normal" life, a lot more freedom to do things you want, more money (that's for sure), better opportunity for family, etc. and there's certainly no denying a passion for medicince/science. i think that's fairly equivalent to people's passion for flying, which i why you see a lot of people with both of those interests. ie, you don't see many people who go through college thinking "i can't WAIT to be an accountant!" those are my thoughts anyway. i do know several pilots in the navy who went to med school after their committment, and i know flight surgeons who "have" to fly as well. if you're interested in the med school program, talk to recruiter. obviously it's competitive, but not impossible.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
mizzoufan said:
Currently I have been debating whether to try to get a pilot slot in the Navy or go to med school. I am already accepted into medical school and am starting to lean that way. I wanted to know if anyone knew much about the Navy's flight surgeon program or if there was any other way to combine both medicine and aviation? Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but wanted to see if anyone had any input.

I have known several Flight Surgeons who had NFO or pilot wings before going to med school. In my last squadron, our doc was a former A-6 B/N.

There is also another program that was just resurrected a few years ago. It allows filght docs to become pilots. The guy who helped restart it was a Prowler pilot. One of the flight surgeons on Columbia when it went down was a Doc/Pilot as well.

So there are two ways to do both if you want.
 

asise

It really tied the room together.
I'd be interested in what you hear about the possibilty for flying as a doc.

I recently turned down a pilot slot in order to pursue med school. While I've heard that being a flight surgeon is a poor substitute, I still think about flying, and would be very interested in finding some sort of compromise.
 

mizzoufan

Registered User
Yeah, I would like to check out the program that lets docs become pilots. If anyone knows anymore about this let me know. Kevin, what med. school program are you talking about. Are you talking about getting the Navy to pay for my med school?? Thanks for all the input.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
A Flight Surgeon who is attached to a squadron or an Air Wing (most Tacair squadrons do nto have one attached, they are attached to the Air Wing, not enought to go around) is expected to fly as much as possible. They actually hae doays where they are suppose to be at the squdron, ususally once or twice a week. In about a year and a half in my squadron, our flight doc got about 100 hours in the Prowler, about 1/3 of the flight time everyone else got. He loved to fly and Ops was more than happy to accommodate him. He is a resident now and will probably not do another flight doc tourv (his words) Not sure what the career path is for a flight doc though, you would have to talk to one.

As for the flight doc to pilot program, there were only a handful of people being selected for it, like 5 or less a year. It may have increased since I last talked to one of the guys who did it but I expect it will stay around those numbers for a variety of reasons. I would not depend on it sticking around either, it has faded away before. I would not worry about it until you are actually a Flight Surgeon. If you really want to be a pilot and a doc, you might think about becoming a pilot first and then go to med school.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
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One small consideration. Last I heard, when you earned a medical degree or became an ordained minister, you were not permitted an unrestricted line designator. The Navy does not want docs or chaplains in a positon of having to go into combat, ie kill someone. So, if you are a fight surgeon/pilot you may actually fly as an aircraft commander, but will never get an assignment to a squadron as a fleet pilot. While you will qualify as a naval aviator, you will still have to fit in what flying you get while serving as a doc somewhere else. Minor point I guess. Just don't want folks thinking the program is something it isn't. Can't hold sick call in the morning and fly a strike against a terrorist training camp in the afternoon.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
wink said:
One small consideration. Last I heard, when you earned a medical degree or became an ordained minister, you were not permitted an unrestricted line designator. The Navy does not want docs or chaplains in a positon of having to go into combat, ie kill someone. So, if you are a fight surgeon/pilot you may actually fly as an aircraft commander, but will never get an assignment to a squadron as a fleet pilot. While you will qualify as a naval aviator, you will still have to fit in what flying you get while serving as a doc somewhere else. Minor point I guess. Just don't want folks thinking the program is something it isn't. Can't hold sick call in the morning and fly a strike against a terrorist training camp in the afternoon.

I hate to contradict you on this Wink but the guy I know who did this was actually posted to a fleet squadron. They put him a land based expeditionary squadron but he still deployed and was treated like any other pilot usually, he was their Safety O. They even had another Flight Surgeon attached to the squadron to fill that billet. I asked him about the designator thing and he explained he had a dual designator. I did not go in any further, the reason I asked though was because he was wearing a star instead of the medical symbol above his stripes. I think he is now in the RAG.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
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I am shocked but will concede to your more recent observation than mine. I actually remember reading the MC/Chaplain Corps only designator policy in the MILPERSMAN. Frankly, the whole philosophy thing aside. It seems like a terrible waste of money and talent.
 

kevin

Registered User
"Kevin, what med. school program are you talking about. Are you talking about getting the Navy to pay for my med school"

--yes...which can be all 4 years or just 2 or 3 if you decide later. the pilots i knew had done the 8 year committment as pilot, then went to med school (which was guarenteed in the beginning). another guy i knew was a flight surgeon/pilot duel thing (i think like flash described) and worked at the top gun school for some time. not sure about the details though. another flight surgeon i knew in the air force flew missions in the mideast as a nav in f15e's. like i said, ask a recruiter.
 

mizzoufan

Registered User
Definitely sounds interesting....but it does sound pretty rare for a doc to get to fly after his MD degree. Thanks for all the imput. If anyone knows where I could get in contact with a flight surgeon, or pilot/doc, let me know.
 

kevin

Registered User
"but it does sound pretty rare for a doc to get to fly after his MD degree."

--well, obviously that's because you can go to medical school when you're 50 or 60 (albeit not with the military), but not pilot training. id just ask your recruiter to put you in contact with a flight surgeon...God knows there are plenty of them.
 

feddoc

Really old guy
Contributor
mizzoufan,

There are several dual designated flight docs. One is (was as of a year ago) the XO of a squadron at China Lake. The most common transition is for a designated pilot/NFO to go to med school, not vice versa. You might be in for a tougher path by going to med school then through the flight program. Send me a PM or an email and I will put you in touch with the right guy who will provide you with better details.


on the side........
It is probably more common to see ex NAs or NFOs as physiologists, although there are only 3 who are dual designated and are required to be by billet designation.
 
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