Hey what up everyone, I'm new to the forums as you can see. Anyway, I was recommended by someone to visit here and check it out to see if they had what I was looking for. Well anyway, I'm currently a HS senior graduatin' in June and well, I want to pursue a career in aviation, preferably with the airlines. My problem, finding the best way to get there. So far, I've looked at just going to flight academies such as Embry Riddle and Sierra Academy and go from there. I've also looked at the military route, via Air Force. Not that I didn't like the Air Force, just that if I were to go military I'd want to fly them Harriers, heh. So here I am, I have yet to visit a Marine recruiter for further info but I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask from you guys. I heard from somewhere that the Marines have like a guaranteed job placement program or something for the airlines, correct me if I'm wrong. Not to mention, the respect and honor that comes with being a Marine just sealed it for me. However, I'm not for certain yet if I would want to go Marines, I know some schools have ROTC programs, Sierra and Embry (2 colleges I prefer) don't have Marine ROTC. I want to get a Bachelors in Aviation and I know the Marines would help pay for it, just that I'm still undecided what to do. Go the military route and do the 8 years (I think, 4 to be officer, another 4 as pilot) or just go to college and forget the military. If any of you had any insight I'd appreciate it if you could shed some light on it, thanks.
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Flight career
- Thread starter JayD
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46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
Whyyyyyyy do you want to go airlines? Tell me what you think the life an airline pilot is like.
As for the military contract, I think it is 8 years after wings.
There is no such thing as a job placement program for the airlines - somebody is trying to sell you something.
Finally, roughly 60% of the Marine Aviation slots are for helos - which are basically useless for getting into the airlines - and the Marine Corps is the one that decides if you fly jets, props, or helos.
As for the military contract, I think it is 8 years after wings.
There is no such thing as a job placement program for the airlines - somebody is trying to sell you something.
Finally, roughly 60% of the Marine Aviation slots are for helos - which are basically useless for getting into the airlines - and the Marine Corps is the one that decides if you fly jets, props, or helos.
No one has guaranteed placement with the airlines, especially in the last couple of years. Why would the military want to help you get a job that would lure you out of the military. Now, if you mean that you'll meet lots of contacts in the industry, maybe. The former Marine bit can go a long way in some quarters. Not that I really understand why someone would fly for the airlines these days, other than the free travel bennies. Corporate, maybe.
I will modify that statement a little. Some private flight academies "guarantee" airline placement. Mesa comes to mind. But in reality, you're still paying them to give you a job in the form of $30K+ invested in training yourself there.
I will modify that statement a little. Some private flight academies "guarantee" airline placement. Mesa comes to mind. But in reality, you're still paying them to give you a job in the form of $30K+ invested in training yourself there.
46Driver said:
I agree with 46Driver, I work for the airlines, not as a pilot but I do work with them, and I honestly don't find many happy pilots. Their always having to worry about their job security, and they all wanna be flying something else. Their always complaining about having to fly routes they don't want, which means they have to sit in the back like the rest of us heathens to get to the airport they are gonna fly from. I don't know if its just in a pilots nature to complain a lot or what, but most of them I talk to wish like hell they could still fly for the military(except for the pay). Money is the only thing they say they like. But I heard one the other day complaining about that, and he was making well into the six-figure range. I can't say I wouldn't leave the military for an airline job, but I'd have to have very, very good reasons.
you might want to reevaluate your reasons for joining. if you're looking for only what the Corps can give you, it is not the service for you. it's somewhat looked down upon when a new SNA says he's only in it to get to the airlines. why should the wing, the ip, or the squadron put forth their best effort if you're only using them as a means to an end. yes, they'd still get your 6 or 8 year committment, but chances are, your on-wing and other studs arent going to like that view.
also, what's so appealing about the airlines over the military? the mission? boring. the pay? as a starting airline pilot, you'll probably wind up making less than an fleet O-3 with flight pay and bennies. the people? corporate life...ugh.
just some things to think about. but primarily, see what 46Driver has to say, as he's seen both sides of the house.
s/f
also, what's so appealing about the airlines over the military? the mission? boring. the pay? as a starting airline pilot, you'll probably wind up making less than an fleet O-3 with flight pay and bennies. the people? corporate life...ugh.
just some things to think about. but primarily, see what 46Driver has to say, as he's seen both sides of the house.
s/f
46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
Zeo said:
To make good money, you have to either fly for a major or a good LCC (low cost carrier) like Southwest or JetBlue. If you are at regional - where many people have to start out, the pay is lousy - try anywhere between $20k and $40k a year until you can upgrade to captain. Upgrading is a factor of seniority and that can take anywhere from 1 year to 10 years depending on the company - and if the company shrinks, you can go from Captain back to First Officer.
Even if you finally get to a company like United or American, they have all taken serious pay cuts of between 33% and 50% over the last 2 years. The pilots at USAir have just watched their pension (due to USAir's bankruptcy) drop from an estimated $96k a year to $28k a year - and the company is probably going to be liquidated within 2 years which means those pilots will be out on the street and looking for a job. Due to seniority, they will have to start over at the bottom of another airline if they can find an airline job.
All in all, much depends on the company you get hired by - and even then, there are no guarantees. Some others on this board fly for different airlines and their experiences will vary - generally upon the health of their company. However, all will agree that following Sept 11, the airline industry has turned upside down and its not the same job it was 10 years ago - the whole industry is in the middle of a paradigm change. Try www.flightinfo.com and that will answer many of your airline questions. If I had to do it all over again, I would probably go fly for US Customs, make north of $75k a year with a guaranteed govt pension, and all of the holidays off.
You have been misinformed about the Marine "guarantee". What you are probably thinking of is the PLC program. In this program you can be guaranteed a flight contract in the Marine Corps, if you either make it through 2, 6 week increments of OCS, or one 10 week combined OCS, you will then receive your commision, go to TBS for 6 months, where you learn how to be an officer in the Corps and then you move on to flight school. I don't want to discourage you from joining the Marines but people who join usually do it to be an officer and a rifleman primarily (that is what you will be doing for 6 months at TBS) and happen to be a pilot as well. So if the the whole combat thing doesn't sound like it is your cup of tea, you'll probably want to scratch the Corps from your mind as a means to becoming a pilot. I'm not going to tell you that being a military pilot is better than an airline pilot because everyone has their own interests and if that's what you want pursue it, just using the Corps to do it would probably be a bad idea. Also, as noted above even if you do get a spot in flight school there is no guarantee you will end up with Harriers, let alone jets. There are plenty of helicopters flown in the Corps and it is more likely you will end up with one of those then a jet or a prop, hence shooting yourself in the foot in terms of your airline career.
ControlledBurn
ERAU Student
Just a head up, but Embry-Riddle does have NROTC with the Marine option. The NROTC Detachment was just created in the Fall of 2003, and therefore is probably still under a lot of people's radar.
cricechex
Active Member
"Finally, roughly 60% of the Marine Aviation slots are for helos - which are basically useless for getting into the airlines - and the Marine Corps is the one that decides if you fly jets, props, or helos."
This isn't entirely true. Being a helo pilot with 2000 hrs, then going to get a multi engine rating with around 200 hrs can get you a job with a regional carrier. Many Army warrants are doing it these days.
This isn't entirely true. Being a helo pilot with 2000 hrs, then going to get a multi engine rating with around 200 hrs can get you a job with a regional carrier. Many Army warrants are doing it these days.
46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
cricechex said:
You are correct when it comes to the regionals. I was hired with about 2500 hours of helo time and 226 hours of fixed wing (118 from the T-34 back in '91 and then another 108 I logged in a Piper Seminole.)
However, nobody wants to stay at a regional - everybody is shooting for a major: Delta, American, FedEx, SouthWest, JetBlue, etc.... FedEx, Southwest, JetBlue (just to name a few) specifically prohibit listing helo flight time: they classify it the same as flight engineer time, simulator time, blimp time - it doesn't count. In any event, to get hired at a major you have to have PIC multi-engine turbine time (some will count the single engine military time, i.e., F-16, AV-8B, T-34C, etc) which means all the years you are flying in a helo are not helping you towards your goal of flying for a career airline.
Obviously, as a helo pilot you are qualified to do it. However, the hiring departments at the airlines are mostly guys with minimal to zero rotary wing time and thus they neither understand helos nor will count the hours.
If you want more info on helos to the airlines, try www.aptap.org
46Driver
"It's a mother beautiful bridge, and it's gon
Its a crazy and ever-changing world right now for pilots. There are a few big helo operators for oil rigs here in the Gulf and in Alaska (narrows down the options of where you can live). Pay starts (I'm told) in the low $40's (soon to improve to the low $50's at a few companies) compared to regionals starting in the low $20's. The schedule is better (week on, week off) than the typical airline pilot (4 days on, 3 days off - although airline pilots have more flexible schedules via dropping trips, etc) Pay will top out around the $100k mark - and unlike the airlines, you don't have to retire at age 60. (FAA rule which applies to Part 121 flying but not corporate flying).
Other options for helo pilots include EMS as well as various police departments - none of which pay very well. To make money flying helos, you really need to do it for a government agency or the ones mentioned above (PHI - Petroleum Helicopters Incorporated, Air Logistics, etc). Also, you will be attractive to corporate flying being rotary and fixed wing qualified.
Generally speaking, the hours required to get hired for a helicopter job are much higher than for a fixed wing job (generally 3000 total helo hours) because helos are harder to fly commercially than airliners. Also, it is so expensive to rent helos that military pilots face very little in the way of civilian competition. In other words, there are many more fixed wing jobs, but also WAYYYY more fixed wing pilots competing for those jobs.
Try www.justhelicopters.com for info on a helo career.
Other options for helo pilots include EMS as well as various police departments - none of which pay very well. To make money flying helos, you really need to do it for a government agency or the ones mentioned above (PHI - Petroleum Helicopters Incorporated, Air Logistics, etc). Also, you will be attractive to corporate flying being rotary and fixed wing qualified.
Generally speaking, the hours required to get hired for a helicopter job are much higher than for a fixed wing job (generally 3000 total helo hours) because helos are harder to fly commercially than airliners. Also, it is so expensive to rent helos that military pilots face very little in the way of civilian competition. In other words, there are many more fixed wing jobs, but also WAYYYY more fixed wing pilots competing for those jobs.
Try www.justhelicopters.com for info on a helo career.
Hello everyone, I too am new to this forum, I am currently a high school Junior, I know its off topic, since it is currently right now on Helo times, and single engine military airrcaft being counted towards major airline time, but you guys are the experts and I would liek to ask you guys just a few questions:
Is it true that military pilot slots are being downsized??? will the Airline industry get any better by 2008 (when I grad from college)??, how difficult is it to be a military aviator? Is it worth attending Embry-riddle? I am currenty working on my PPL, before I attend college NEXT fall 2005, I hope to have my commercial-multi engine from an FBO and "ALL-ATP".
-thank You
Is it true that military pilot slots are being downsized??? will the Airline industry get any better by 2008 (when I grad from college)??, how difficult is it to be a military aviator? Is it worth attending Embry-riddle? I am currenty working on my PPL, before I attend college NEXT fall 2005, I hope to have my commercial-multi engine from an FBO and "ALL-ATP".
-thank You
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