FAA Check Ride Best Practices

[Gatordev]

I know the majority of us here don't take regular check rides with DPEs, and instead take either .mil rides or rides with company Check Airmen, but I figured I'd ask here. I know we have active CFIs here, too, so I welcome the input.

I'm scheduled to take a ME add-on course in April and not having taken a check ride with a DPE since I was 19, I'm sure there are some basics I can plan for that will help the oral portion (giggity). But I don't know what I don't know and some of the basics (like the logbook) have changed. So some questions for the group, along with some thinking out loud...

Logbook: Everything is in FF now for me, so do I just print out the 1- or 2- page logbook summary and put it in a binder?

Certificates: For my work check rides, we just pull out our three items (ticket, medical, ID) and show them. Is that all I need to do, or should I have a copy of them in the binder?

Foggles: I have a pair somewhere but can't find them. It doesn't look like there's been drastic improvements in foggle technology over the years, so was thinking of just ordering these. Any issues with that idea? We don't use them at work...we just use our NVGs as our view limiting device.

iPad Strap: I don't fly with a strap for my iPad, I just rotate it sideways and have it sit on my lap. The ACS states "Secure all items in the flight deck and cabin." Does that then mandate a strap? I'm hoping no.

Endorsement: How does that work with FF? Does the CFI sign on the iPad and then it prints when you generate the logbook summary? I've never had to deal with that.

As you can see, I'm focusing on things I want to have beforehand to bring with me, but there are of course other questions that will be covered by the CFI, but I'm curious to hear thoughts about, like...

ACS: My understanding is you don't have to go through the entire Commercial ACS, just the ME specific items, but lots of the basics of course overlap. At the end of the day, does it still boil down to "maneuvers, T/O and landings, and ME EPs (in the pattern and on the approach), and the standard 3-4 approaches?

Endorsements (again): It looks like I will come to the check ride with a Complex endorsement, but if the plane only has twin 180 engines, then I still (!!!) won't have a high-performance endorsement, correct? It seems you can't multiply 180 x 2 and call it more than 201 hp.

I'm sure there are other questions, but I'll start here.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I'll take a quick shot at this @Gatordev

The vast majority of paperwork workflow is in IACRA.

Logbook - You will need to provide endorsement for the Practical Test (aka 'checkride') to the Examiner. Flight Instructor Endorsement to take the checkride and a Solo Endorsement if you are bringing an airplane to the Practical Test. There is no minimum hours requirement for the ME add-on at the Commercial level.

You will fill in the pilot experience blocks in IACRA to generate the FAA Form 8710-1 (Airman Certificate And/or Rating Application). The DPE or school/program you are using will give you instructions on how to add a Recommending Instructor in IACRA. Foreflight can generate all the numbers for you on a mock 8710-1 form that you can then type into IACRA

You will need photo ID and your medical and current airman certificates

You will need to prove to the DPE that the airplane you are using for the Practical Test is in fact Airworthy. If its a dedicated program/school where the DPE works for the outfit, this may not be necessary - but generally a DPE will require you show last Annual, 100 HR, Pitot static, Transponder, etc and that any inoperative equipment is placarded. If POH has a "Kinds of Operation" table the aircraft needs to conform to that or at a minimum, Required Equipment under 91.205 for the operations you will be conducting (Day, night, IFR)

Foggles or any View Limiting Device is fine - and yes will be required.

I have yet to see a DPE worry or bother with an Ipad strap. Do what works best for you. I can tell you yoke mounted iPads are a pain and rarely provide benefit. Ipad stored in center console or on your lap has been fine with my students taking checkrides with local DPEs and even occasional FSDO ASIs

ACS - all of the generally contain an "additional rating task table" - based on what you currently hold and what you are applying for. The tasks are laid out for you on Appendix A page 14:



Endorsements:

Your experience in the T-34C suffices for your Complex/High Performance endorsement. The FAM/Contact syllabus you went through in Primary also suffices for Spin training should you ever desire to get your CFI ASEL

I certify that [First name, MI, Last name] has received the required training of §§ 61.127 and 61.129. I have determined that [he or she] is prepared for the [name of] practical test.

A CFI can enter and sign an endorsement record on your iPad/Foreflight or if they also have Foreflight, there is built in workflow to send the endorsement to your Foreflight account and it is automatically entered in your FF logbook!

and a solo endorsement if you are flying solo to bring an airplane to the examiner/checkride site

Oh and make sure you have clarity from the DPE on their fee and if they want it in cash, Venmo, gold, Doge Coin, Pork Belly futures, etc.

Make sure Foreflight is completely up to date, charge your ipad, might help to tag the approaches you will be doing. Airport diagrams, etc. Standard stuff.

The oral is the stumbling block for most people. Factors of Vmc should be memorized and well rehearsed.

 

[Griz882]

@ChuckMK23 pretty much nailed it…but keep in mind a new endorsement check ride will be quite different than the “flight reviews” you’ll typically need.

 

[Gatordev]

Logbook - You will need to provide endorsement for the Practical Test (aka 'checkride') to the Examiner. Flight Instructor Endorsement to take the checkride and a Solo Endorsement if you are bringing an airplane to the Practical Test. There is no minimum hours requirement for the ME add-on at the Commercial level.

You will fill in the pilot experience blocks in IACRA to generate the FAA Form 8710-1 (Airman Certificate And/or Rating Application). The DPE or school/program you are using will give you instructions on how to add a Recommending Instructor in IACRA. Foreflight can generate all the numbers for you on a mock 8710-1 form that you can then type into IACRA

Right, but where does the actual endorsement "live?" I understand FF handles endorsements, but for the sake of the check ride, what is used to show proof of the endorsement(s)? Is it just showing them in FF?

I understand certain things are signed in IACRA, and for the DPE, that may be all that's needed, but I assumed there would need to be actual proof of the signature (digital or otherwise), which seems like that would mean opening up FF and showing it there or having the logbook summary printed and showing that. No?

Endorsements:

Your experience in the T-34C suffices for your Complex/High Performance endorsement. The FAM/Contact syllabus you went through in Primary also suffices for Spin training should you ever desire to get your CFI ASEL

I certify that [First name, MI, Last name] has received the required training of §§ 61.127 and 61.129. I have determined that [he or she] is prepared for the [name of] practical test.

I don't have either endorsement, unfortunately, so I need/want to get them. Even with the experience, I still need to fly with a CFI to get one or both. Based on my (perhaps mis-) understanding, a twin-180 hp plane won't count as a High-Performance. That seems silly, but if true, it is what it is. I was seeing if anyone knew differently.

@ChuckMK23 , thanks for the post. Seems like I'm on the right track of thinking about the right things. The school has a relationship with the DPE, apparently, so hopefully the aircraft is one less thing to worry about, but not the end of the world if it isn't. I did come to the realization that I scheduled this for the same week as Sun 'n Fun, so hopefully we can squeeze ourselves in to get approaches done somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if we have to pop down into ZMA's zone.

 

[Griz882]

Right, but where does the actual endorsement "live?" I understand FF handles endorsements, but for the sake of the check ride, what is used to show proof of the endorsement(s)? Is it just showing them in FF?

I understand certain things are signed in IACRA, and for the DPE, that may be all that's needed, but I assumed there would need to be actual proof of the signature (digital or otherwise), which seems like that would mean opening up FF and showing it there or having the logbook summary printed and showing that. No?

The FF endorsement is all you will need. It works just like a pen and ink logbook.

I don't have either endorsement, unfortunately, so I need/want to get them. Even with the experience, I still need to fly with a CFI to get one or both. Based on my (perhaps mis-) understanding, a twin-180 hp plane won't count as a High-Performance. That seems silly, but if true, it is what it is. I was seeing if anyone knew differently.

I seriously wouldn’t waste the money. Prior to August 4, 1997, the FAA did not require pilots to have a complex endorsement. It was included in the high-performance training and endorsement. As such, if you logged time as a pilot in command in a complex aircraft (T-34C) or simulator representing one prior to this date, then a complex endorsement is not required.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Right, but where does the actual endorsement "live?" I understand FF handles endorsements, but for the sake of the check ride, what is used to show proof of the endorsement(s)? Is it just showing them in FF?

Your endorsement records live in the Logbook > Qualifications > Endorsements tab in FF

an example looks like this:

 

[Gatordev]

I don't think you guys are understanding, although at this point, it seems like it doesn't really matter and either will work. What I was asking was do I show him my iPad or a printed version of the FF log. Sounds like just showing him the iPad will do. I'll still probably print out a 1-page logbook summary to have it.

I seriously wouldn’t waste the money. Prior to August 4, 1997, the FAA did not require pilots to have a complex endorsement. It was included in the high-performance training and endorsement. As such, if you logged time as a pilot in command in a complex aircraft (T-34C) or simulator representing one prior to this date, then a complex endorsement is not required.

My first logged flight in a T-34 was in 2000 (although I did fly IN one in 1997), so it would still be required. I have ~3 hours in an Arrow, as well, but never finished the insurance mandatory 5 hours to get the endorsement. The Complex endorsement will come with the ME training anyway, as I understand it.

 

[Griz882]

I don't think you guys are understanding, although at this point, it seems like it doesn't really matter and either will work. What I was asking was do I show him my iPad or a printed version of the FF log. Sounds like just showing him the iPad will do. I'll still probably print out a 1-page logbook summary to have it.



My first logged flight in a T-34 was in 2000 (although I did fly IN one in 1997), so it would still be required. I have ~3 hours in an Arrow, as well, but never finished the insurance mandatory 5 hours to get the endorsement. The Complex endorsement will come with the ME training anyway, as I understand it.

Got it…your FF log is your log. That said, I still print out a paper report every year.

Next point, I thought you were an old fart like me so sorry for the grampsplaining. In this case I believe you are correct.

 

[Gatordev]

I just discovered (perhaps re-discovered) that FF doesn't like it when you try and use its tools but don't use them the way it was designed. Case in point, none of my Line Checks are showing as BFRs in FF, despite them being marked as such. I'm assuming that's because there isn't a signature tied to the logbook entry. This reminded me that I should probably print out my last Line Check paperwork and bring it with me, just to show evidence of a BFR to the CFI.

 

[ChuckMK23]

I just discovered (perhaps re-discovered) that FF doesn't like it when you try and use its tools but don't use them the way it was designed. Case in point, none of my Line Checks are showing as BFRs in FF, despite them being marked as such. I'm assuming that's because there isn't a signature tied to the logbook entry. This reminded me that I should probably print out my last Line Check paperwork and bring it with me, just to show evidence of a BFR to the CFI.

I upload a PDF of my AF Form 8 (kind of a NATOPS &Inst check in one) to cover my Flight Review and ICP - and I tag the entry with both and it seems to show up and keep track.

Your 135 check rides are already covered under the appropriate FARs so you can just annotate in comments.

 

[Gatordev]

I think the issue may be that FF doesn't really know how to deal with maintaining currency across two different categories of aircraft. That, and I still think the lack of anything other than my comment and the check box is tripping it up.