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entry grade credit?

Osvet

New Member
ALCON,

Looking for some good gouge here. I joined the Navy reserve in May 2017 and was only offered Ensign despite having 11 years active duty in the USAF, ending as an O-4. Was in the USAF Reserves until Nov 2015. I applied for EDO in the Navy Reserve, gave the recruiter my DD-214, all relevant USAF records,etc., but ended up being offered O-1 or nothing. I took the offer and appealed to the Board for Correction of Naval Records for a rank change to O-3, which was endorsed by PERS and the Reserve Community Manager. Board denied the request citing that the Navy does not award entry grade credit. I did a little more digging for my appeal - and 10 U.S. Code § 12207 states "For the purpose of determining the grade and the rank within grade of a person receiving an original appointment as a reserve commissioned officer...the person shall be credited at the time of the appointment with any commissioned service." The corresponding DOD instruction pretty much says the same thing. How does the Navy get away with a zero entry grade credit policy?
 

donte9235

Member
What did your service agreement say in section 1 "Having volunteered for a commission as a Reserve officer in the United States Navy in the grade of _______"? If it says O-1 and you signed it that's probably how they got away with it.
The PA for EDO calls out "Ensign, USNR" specifically. So if you wanted something more I'd imagine the best bet for you would have been to apply to a different program.
 

RecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
ALCON,

Looking for some good gouge here. I joined the Navy reserve in May 2017 and was only offered Ensign despite having 11 years active duty in the USAF, ending as an O-4. Was in the USAF Reserves until Nov 2015. I applied for EDO in the Navy Reserve, gave the recruiter my DD-214, all relevant USAF records,etc., but ended up being offered O-1 or nothing. I took the offer and appealed to the Board for Correction of Naval Records for a rank change to O-3, which was endorsed by PERS and the Reserve Community Manager. Board denied the request citing that the Navy does not award entry grade credit. I did a little more digging for my appeal - and 10 U.S. Code § 12207 states "For the purpose of determining the grade and the rank within grade of a person receiving an original appointment as a reserve commissioned officer...the person shall be credited at the time of the appointment with any commissioned service." The corresponding DOD instruction pretty much says the same thing. How does the Navy get away with a zero entry grade credit policy?
If you read the PA, you shouldn't have been able to apply.

https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/officer/communitymanagers/Documents/PA-203_EDO_Reserve_Commissioning_Program_Aug-2013.pdf

In particular source: Civilians and Enlisted.

Even in the event that was waived, the PA still specifically mentions commissioning as an Ensign. The biggest reason behind this is the fact it allows sufficient time and experience to get qualified and to set yourself up for future promotions to O-4 and beyond.
 

subreservist

Well-Known Member
For Officer OSVETs, most Navy programs will have you come in as O1 (usually the exception is for doctors). IMHO, if keeping rank is high on one's priority list, it's best to return to the service left from.
 

snake020

Well-Known Member
Contributor
If you read the PA, you shouldn't have been able to apply.


The biggest reason behind this is the fact it allows sufficient time and experience to get qualified and to set yourself up for future promotions to O-4 and beyond.
Why? We allow lateral transfers at the O-4 level without enforcing the community wickets in the prior ranks. The OP left the AF as an O-4; it's a bit silly to discount his experience as insignificant and irrelevant.
 

snake020

Well-Known Member
Contributor
ALCON,

Looking for some good gouge here. I joined the Navy reserve in May 2017 and was only offered Ensign despite having 11 years active duty in the USAF, ending as an O-4. Was in the USAF Reserves until Nov 2015. I applied for EDO in the Navy Reserve, gave the recruiter my DD-214, all relevant USAF records,etc., but ended up being offered O-1 or nothing. I took the offer and appealed to the Board for Correction of Naval Records for a rank change to O-3, which was endorsed by PERS and the Reserve Community Manager. Board denied the request citing that the Navy does not award entry grade credit. I did a little more digging for my appeal - and 10 U.S. Code § 12207 states "For the purpose of determining the grade and the rank within grade of a person receiving an original appointment as a reserve commissioned officer...the person shall be credited at the time of the appointment with any commissioned service." The corresponding DOD instruction pretty much says the same thing. How does the Navy get away with a zero entry grade credit policy?
I think this merits getting your Congressman/Senator involved. I don't know how having a break in service works into this, but last I checked those promotions are permanent, and at the O-4 AD level approved by the Senate.
 

RecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Why? We allow lateral transfers at the O-4 level without enforcing the community wickets in the prior ranks. The OP left the AF as an O-4; it's a bit silly to discount his experience as insignificant and irrelevant.
Different when it’s navy to navy instead of another branch.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
Having a hard time buying that given I did an interservice transfer and kept the same rank and date of rank
I think the point being made here is (I'll take the responses at face value) that his particular USNR community does not take people at a rank > O-1. So OP either missed that point entirely, or didn't care at the time and now does. Other IST's obviously don't have this situation, but apparently it was a thing with this one, and he was told it was at the time. I'm not going to sea lawyer it, but my guess is when you sign the dotted line accepting a commission as an ENS-USNR, you don't have much recourse to say, "they got it wrong, I was once a Major, and should be one again in spite of my most recent commissioning". Not trying to be a dick, and lord knows, I wouldn't want to be reduced from O-4 to O-1 myself (unless I could keep my current pay and go back to living as a flight school student)........but it sounds like the time for negotiation was prior to the oath in this case.
 
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subreservist

Well-Known Member
Having a hard time buying that given I did an interservice transfer and kept the same rank and date of rank
This does not appear to be an interservice transfer. The OP seems to describe the situation as getting out of service with the USAF and coming back in service through the Navy via the Navy Recruiting process. That process is entirely different and most programs start you off as O1.
 

Osvet

New Member
Wow - this took off. Yea, the advisory opinion from PERS was even though I had a short break in service, I still should have been processed as an inter service transfer. My point though is that the law and DOD instructions are pretty clear:

10 U.S. Code § 12207 states:
“For the purpose of determining the grade and the rank within grade of a person receiving an original appointment as a reserve commissioned officer (other than a commissioned warrant officer) in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, the person shall be credited at the time of the appointment with any commissioned service (other than service as a commissioned warrant officer) performed before such appointment as a regular officer, or as a reserve officer in an active status, in any armed force, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or the Public Health Service.” https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/12207
Applicability – “original appointment” applies to me:
DoDI 1310.02, March 26, 2015 states:
“In general, an original appointment applies to an individual entering a Military Service for the first time through any military accession program; a former officer returning to service; an enlisted member completing an officer program; an officer transferring between Military Services; an officer transferring between components within a Military Service; an individual, enlisted member, or officer appointed by warrant or commissioned as a warrant officer; or a warrant officer being appointed as a commissioned officer.”
 

subreservist

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure these regulations apply the way you think if you came in through the Navy Recruiting process. Can you at least address that? If you came in by some other means, maybe these regulations apply, although the first you mention I think is referring more to credit of time in service vice rank. I.e. One should not lose time making it more distant to obtain retirement or be paid as O1 less than 2 years. if you have previous military time.

The rank is addressed by the program authorization, so that is the lead authority. Again, unless you came in another way.
 
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