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Congrats to LT. Swegle (aka Charles Edward never-ending question thread)
- Thread starter azguy
- Start date
Lord knows I wouldn't have wanted the NY Times sitting in on my CQ brief.
Charles Edward
Member
So, does this mean that she will be flying the Hornet.
According to the news report below, out of 1400 Hornet pilots in the navy now, only 26 of them are black and only 33 are female.
Are the black and female pilots in the community well integrated with the other pilots? I certainly hope that they are just as qualified as the others.
www.today.com
The news piece mentions that LT (jg) Swegle is getting her wings after about 3 years of training. Is this correct? Don't pilots get their wings after about a year, but them complete training in jets later?
Does it really take three years to be a full fledged Hornet pilot?
Do candidates who have taken civilian flying lessons have any advantage at all in the pilot training process, or not at all?
Thanks.
According to the news report below, out of 1400 Hornet pilots in the navy now, only 26 of them are black and only 33 are female.
Are the black and female pilots in the community well integrated with the other pilots? I certainly hope that they are just as qualified as the others.
First Black female Navy fighter pilot speaks out on historic milestone
Navy Lt. j.g. Maddie Swegle has just became the U.S. Navy’s first Black female tactical jet pilot, a historic accomplishment that she hopes will inspire other young women to “follow their dreams.” TODAY’s Sheinelle Jones reports.
www.today.com
The news piece mentions that LT (jg) Swegle is getting her wings after about 3 years of training. Is this correct? Don't pilots get their wings after about a year, but them complete training in jets later?
Does it really take three years to be a full fledged Hornet pilot?
Do candidates who have taken civilian flying lessons have any advantage at all in the pilot training process, or not at all?
Thanks.
Search around the site using the search function. Here's some short answers:
1) Female and minority pilots are fully integrated. The jet doesn't care about your chromosomes or skin color. You are qualified or you're not.
2) Time to train depends on community. For the jet community, wings are expected a little over 2 years into the pipeline. This can vary depending on jet health, weather, personal factors, etc. 3 years to get wings is not a crazy long time in the jet community. For the tactical jet world, wings are earned after flying the T-45 jet (which itself comes after Primary training in the T-6 turboprop).
3) After wings, you go to the FRS, which is a squadron where you learn to fly your fleet aircraft. That syllabus should be 9-10 months, but is subject to the same issues and variables described above. It took me nearly 2 years to finish the FRS.
4) "Fully fledged" is subjective. Do you mean finish the FRS syllabus and hit the fleet? Do you mean earn your major qualifications in the aircraft (this occurs in more syllabi in the fleet, rather than in the FRS)? It is more nuanced.
5) Students with only a private pilot license may or may not have any advantage. Usually the answer is no. Students who have more advanced certificates and ratings (particularly instrument ratings) generally do have an advantage, so long as they have a good attitude. That applies only to Primary training, and the playing field is level in subsequent phases of training.
Again, use the search function for these general questions. Also, anecdotally I hear LTjg Swegle is an outstanding officer and a talented pilot. I wish her luck in her career.
1) Female and minority pilots are fully integrated. The jet doesn't care about your chromosomes or skin color. You are qualified or you're not.
2) Time to train depends on community. For the jet community, wings are expected a little over 2 years into the pipeline. This can vary depending on jet health, weather, personal factors, etc. 3 years to get wings is not a crazy long time in the jet community. For the tactical jet world, wings are earned after flying the T-45 jet (which itself comes after Primary training in the T-6 turboprop).
3) After wings, you go to the FRS, which is a squadron where you learn to fly your fleet aircraft. That syllabus should be 9-10 months, but is subject to the same issues and variables described above. It took me nearly 2 years to finish the FRS.
4) "Fully fledged" is subjective. Do you mean finish the FRS syllabus and hit the fleet? Do you mean earn your major qualifications in the aircraft (this occurs in more syllabi in the fleet, rather than in the FRS)? It is more nuanced.
5) Students with only a private pilot license may or may not have any advantage. Usually the answer is no. Students who have more advanced certificates and ratings (particularly instrument ratings) generally do have an advantage, so long as they have a good attitude. That applies only to Primary training, and the playing field is level in subsequent phases of training.
Again, use the search function for these general questions. Also, anecdotally I hear LTjg Swegle is an outstanding officer and a talented pilot. I wish her luck in her career.
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Why is this news?
It's news if you're from the part of America where you and your friends and family don't traditionally dream about flying a jet with "U.S. Navy" painted on the side.
I'm good with it. Maybe not 100% good with it, but our country isn't 100% perfect either- never has been and never will. But overall I'm good with her story and the publicity.
The length of time it takes the Navy to "make a pilot" has always had me amazed. But these numbers seem longer than I thought.
Are you saying that it could potentially take five years from the start of pilot training until done with the FRS?
The guys in my particular generation that went to my particular FRS took that long. It's atypical. However, 9-10 months has become more the exception these days regardless of which FRS. Due to jet issues, FRS length of over a year is not uncommon.
Black Swan events such as the T-45 OBOGS issues and random "red stripes" also can drive the time to train up. So it really just depends if you are training in a healthy time or an unhealthy time.
Guys hitting the fleet as an O-2 still happens regularly. 5 years to hit the fleet, while possible, is at the extreme end of long and is quite uncommon.
Wouldn't be unheard of. For VFA/VAQ pilots it is 3-4 years, on average. Other communities have a shorter time to train. I was just a couple months short of 4 years when I checked into my first fleet squadron. Though I only spent one week in A-pool, that is another significant time suck for a lot of SNA/SNFO's........when I was going through, it wasn't uncommon for folks to spend 6-8 months in the "pool" waiting to actually start training. But bare bones API-wings for Jet/Strike SNA is about 2 years. VFA/VAQ FRS is about 10 months to a year.
edit: my experience was also at the same FRS as Python in a similar timeframe IIRC (22 months for me)
I hope at some point they (Navy AND media) let her fade into the fleet and get to just be a normal JO, not a poster girl. You only get to do that once per life, and there's times it's stressful enough for anyone. I can't imagine having to be a nugget with Public Affairs constantly up my ass to boot.
Well, obviously there is a very easy way to make the attention go away: just recruit additional people of diversity who are smart and motivated enough to make it through the pipeline. If you have dozens or scores of female minority winged 1310s, they can just be who they are and not worry about all the spotlights on them alone. It’s clearly not a matter of talent. Women of color are just as talented as anyone else. Recruiters and the Navy just need to be convincing in their value proposition. (And “value” does not have to mean just money/benefits, but also the emotional or moral value.) I would hope but not assume that there are several others at some stage in the naval officer/ naval aviation pipeline behind LT Swegle just working their way through.
My wait for E2C2 advanced is gonna be about 7 months, about equal to my time in a-pool
Charles Edward
Member
Thanks, Python.
So, from commissioning to the time you are Hornet pilot on a carrier it could be up to five years after pipeline training and FRS? Then, it is a three year tour on a carrier, correct?