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College to OCS application timeline and Security Clearance Questions

alexng30

New Member
Hey guys,

So I am currently a sophomore in college, but I have been seriously considering applying to OCS for an SNA slot. Around when should I be talking to an OR and working on getting a package ready for submission if I wanted to be ready for OCS as soon as I graduate? If you have experience with this specific timeline/situation any info would be really helpful.

My second question might be a bit more complicated/sensitive. Obviously certain positions are going to require security clearances, and I think I'm safe in my assumption that naval aviation is no exception. From my research, I've read that if you want to track jets you're more likely than not going to need a TS clearance. I think the biggest issue for me is that I am a Chinese-American. I'm a natural born US citizen; however, I'm not too sure how detrimental my family history would be in the process of obtaining a security clearance. My dad is a naturalized US citizen and my mom is a Hong Kong citizen holding a green card. I also have dual-citizenship with Hong Kong by virtue of my mom's being a HK citizen when I was born but I'm more than willing to renounce it. I've lived and studied in the US all my life, but both sets of grandparents live in Mainland China/HK.

So my question is, will my family history torpedo any chance of my becoming a naval aviator, specifically if I'm hoping to select jets?

Thanks!
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
You will probably be forced to go helicopters, because you will only be able to get a SECRET clearance. Are you still interested in being a Naval Aviator?
 

alexng30

New Member
You will probably be forced to go helicopters, because you will only be able to get a SECRET clearance. Are you still interested in being a Naval Aviator?
I considered helos my second choice after the strike pipeline. Would they just go "sorry man...uhhhh couldn't get you a TS clearance...have fun in helos!" when you have to track after primary?
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
My post was a snarky tongue in cheek one. They don't even start the investigation for a TS until after you are complete with primary and have track selected. I believe all pipelines other than helicopters require a TS nowadays. The bigger hurdle for you will be to get in to the program to begin with, because they know there is a chance you will need a TS. If I had to guess (and this is just a guess), it won't be a show stopper. I've met plenty of guys with complicated backgrounds that are flying grey aircraft. That may have changed after a certain VQ NFO who is sitting in a prison in Virginia after giving secrets to the Chinese, but who knows.
 

RecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Around when should I be talking to an OR and working on getting a package ready for submission if I wanted to be ready for OCS as soon as I graduate?
18 months from graduation is a good time to start contacting.

My second question might be a bit more complicated/sensitive. Obviously certain positions are going to require security clearances, and I think I'm safe in my assumption that naval aviation is no exception. From my research, I've read that if you want to track jets you're more likely than not going to need a TS clearance. I think the biggest issue for me is that I am a Chinese-American. I'm a natural born US citizen; however, I'm not too sure how detrimental my family history would be in the process of obtaining a security clearance. My dad is a naturalized US citizen and my mom is a Hong Kong citizen holding a green card. I also have dual-citizenship with Hong Kong by virtue of my mom's being a HK citizen when I was born but I'm more than willing to renounce it. I've lived and studied in the US all my life, but both sets of grandparents live in Mainland China/HK.

So my question is, will my family history torpedo any chance of my becoming a naval aviator, specifically if I'm hoping to select jets?
@xmid nailed it on the clearance question that it'll probably not work out for TS-SCI/jets. Big picture, there are a lot of factors that can go into selecting jets including medical, your primary scores, and even timing. So you could be TS-SCI eligible but due to other factors you get selected for Helos or Maritime platforms.
 

alexng30

New Member
My post was a snarky tongue in cheek one. They don't even start the investigation for a TS until after you are complete with primary and have track selected. I believe all pipelines other than helicopters require a TS nowadays. The bigger hurdle for you will be to get in to the program to begin with, because they know there is a chance you will need a TS. If I had to guess (and this is just a guess), it won't be a show stopper. I've met plenty of guys with complicated backgrounds that are flying grey aircraft. That may have changed after a certain VQ NFO who is sitting in a prison in Virginia after giving secrets to the Chinese, but who knows.
I guess I need to brush up on my internet sarcasm skills then hehe. And so I guess the question of my family background would have more to deal with whether or not I get a PRO-REC for SNA than whatever I track into?
 

alexng30

New Member
18 months from graduation is a good time to start contacting.



@xmid nailed it on the clearance question that it'll probably not work out for TS-SCI/jets. Big picture, there are a lot of factors that can go into selecting jets including medical, your primary scores, and even timing. So you could be TS-SCI eligible but due to other factors you get selected for Helos or Maritime platforms.
Thanks for the info. So with regards to the security clearance and jets, is there anyone I could talk to who might know more about the specifics of how that would play out or is it really just a shot in the dark due to my ethnicity/background?
 

RecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Thanks for the info. So with regards to the security clearance and jets, is there anyone I could talk to who might know more about the specifics of how that would play out or is it really just a shot in the dark due to my ethnicity/background?
Unfortunately for clearances and whatnot not really. Otherwise, everyone and their mother would be contacting regarding clearance eligibility, etc.
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
Something to keep in mind with clearances is that they are all about showing over time that you can be trusted and there is nothing to worry about. They are going to actually sit down with a lot of people that know and have known you (whether its for a S or TS).

The question of whether you can get a TS-SCI is probably much more complicated. Have you and do you make trips to China? Are they going to interview an old family friend that will tell them your family has a picture of Mao hanging in the living room? Do you have family in government or military positions in China? etc. etc. Anything that would make someone think there was even a small chance that you could be swayed by a foreign government. And if I were you, I would renounce any non-US citizenship that you have sooner rather than later. If this is something you really want, you should do all that you can to live accordingly. There are many more qualified applicants than selectees. Anything that could raise a doubt will probably cause them to choose another highly qualified candidate.
 

alexng30

New Member
Something to keep in mind with clearances is that they are all about showing over time that you can be trusted and there is nothing to worry about. They are going to actually sit down with a lot of people that know and have known you (whether its for a S or TS).

The question of whether you can get a TS-SCI is probably much more complicated. Have you and do you make trips to China? Are they going to interview an old family friend that will tell them your family has a picture of Mao hanging in the living room? Do you have family in government or military positions in China? etc. etc. Anything that would make someone think there was even a small chance that you could be swayed by a foreign government. And if I were you, I would renounce any non-US citizenship that you have sooner rather than later. If this is something you really want, you should do all that you can to live accordingly. There are many more qualified applicants than selectees. Anything that could raise a doubt will probably cause them to choose another highly qualified candidate.
Yeah, the process just seems super murky for someone with my background. And probably going to talk to my parents about my plans with the Navy and renouncing the HK citizenship when I get home from college.

Anyways, thanks alot man! Just alot to sort through agh.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
Hey, you're not the first "first generation American" to ever apply for the program. Don't stress over things you can't control. Keep doing well in school and apply for the program when the time is right. Be completely open and honest when the time comes to fill out your security questionnaire. Be prepared for follow-on questions, The never-ending need for "a few good men" (and women) may likely trump everything else. Good luck.
 

RecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Yeah, the process just seems super murky for someone with my background. And probably going to talk to my parents about my plans with the Navy and renouncing the HK citizenship when I get home from college.

Anyways, thanks alot man! Just alot to sort through agh.
Don’t worry about the renouncing part just yet, your OR will tell you what exactly you need to do.

Seems like the concern isn’t to much joining, but rather the ability to get jets/TS-SCI. You have to remember, there are factors outside your control that unfortunately you have to bear. Remember, 80% of Americans aren’t even eligible to join the military, period, these days (legal, drug, medical, education, citizenship, etc.).
 

Hair Warrior

New Member
There’s a lot of really bad gouge in this thread.

The fact is that most U.S. citizens can obtain the highest level of clearance, and be read into the most sensitive compartments. The question is how much the government can trust you with that information.

Half of that equation is what kind of person you are, and how you live your life. The other half of the equation is how susceptible you are to influence from factors “outside” your control. Foreign ties, basically. Family abroad. Relationships abroad (sexual, platonic, financial, religious/nonprofit, employment-related, anything where a bond persists).

No one is going to tell you not to do whatever you want in life. But, for example, if you are dead set on continuing to do philanthropic trips with your church group to help poor people jn Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, Belarus, name your foreign country etc., don’t be mad or surprised if you can’t get/keep a clearance. Or if your mom’s brother still lives in Iran, has a state job, and they keep in touch online regularly, yeah that is going to be hard for the U.S. government to accept the risk of giving you a clearance - even though you have “no” control over their relationship. Even if there is no foreign aspect, suppose your brother is in gambling debt to a criminal gang and you’re constantly loaning him money, yeah you’re a “good” brother but a bad risk for a clearance. That’s not fair, life ain’t fair, and war/espionage sure as shit ain’t supposed to be fair.

For the OP, don’t listen to the people above. You could probably even get a clearance for work at a three-letter intel agency. It just would all depend on trust, and minimalizing/eliminating foreign ties. How badly do you want it, and how far are you willing to go to prove it? I’m not telling you and your U.S.-based family to renounce all ties to HK/China and stop answering the phone calls and emails of your family/friends abroad, divest of any foreign debts/investments, renounce citizenships, move houses and change your phone number and email address so your foreign relatives don’t know how to get ahold of you in the future. Just know that if you do continue keeping foreign ties, every little thing adds up to a “whole person” clearance investigation and adjudication, and the U.S. government owes you nothing in terms of security clearances or military service.
 

RecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
There’s a lot of really bad gouge in this thread.

The fact is that most U.S. citizens can obtain the highest level of clearance, and be read into the most sensitive compartments. The question is how much the government can trust you with that information.

Half of that equation is what kind of person you are, and how you live your life. The other half of the equation is how susceptible you are to influence from factors “outside” your control. Foreign ties, basically. Family abroad. Relationships abroad (sexual, platonic, financial, religious/nonprofit, employment-related, anything where a bond persists).

No one is going to tell you not to do whatever you want in life. But, for example, if you are dead set on continuing to do philanthropic trips with your church group to help poor people jn Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, Belarus, name your foreign country etc., don’t be mad or surprised if you can’t get/keep a clearance. Or if your mom’s brother still lives in Iran, has a state job, and they keep in touch online regularly, yeah that is going to be hard for the U.S. government to accept the risk of giving you a clearance - even though you have “no” control over their relationship. Even if there is no foreign aspect, suppose your brother is in gambling debt to a criminal gang and you’re constantly loaning him money, yeah you’re a “good” brother but a bad risk for a clearance. That’s not fair, life ain’t fair, and war/espionage sure as shit ain’t supposed to be fair.

For the OP, don’t listen to the people above. You could probably even get a clearance for work at a three-letter intel agency. It just would all depend on trust, and minimalizing/eliminating foreign ties. I’m not telling you and your U.S.-based family to renounce all ties to HK/China and stop answering the phone calls and emails of your family/friends abroad, divest of any foreign debts/investments, renounce citizenships, move houses and change your phone number and email address so your foreign relatives don’t know how to get ahold of you in the future. Just know that if you do continue keeping foreign ties, every little thing adds up to a “whole person” clearance investigation and adjudication, and the U.S. government owes you nothing in terms of security clearances or military service.
The issue isn’t so much “hey kid you’re f*cked” but rather to keep his options open in the event it doesn’t work out. There’s so many details the OP is leaving out that could impact getting a T5/TS-SCI.
 
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