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NEWS CIB vs. CAR - The Fascinating Minutiae
- Thread starter ea6bflyr
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Legion of merit is basically an end of tor award for senior officers, and the army looks at the bronze star MUCH differently than the navy does-especially for an officer. The Army treats it like a combat end of tour award...O-3 and above get them like candy in theater.
I'll save the other acronym-resistant millenials a couple minutes of article reading and Googling:
"Dr. Esper is a recipient of the Department of Defense Medal for Distinguished Public Service. Among his many military awards and decorations are the Legion of Merit, Bronze Star Medal, the Kuwait Liberation Medal, Kuwait Liberation Medal-Saudi Arabia, and the Combat Infantryman Badge."
Combat Infantryman Badge (Wikipedia)
I briefed him a few times when he was Secretary of the Army, he is a good person, listens, and takes in everything he hears. He is a.so able to make solid, logic- asked decisions on the spot. A refreshing thing at the Pentagon.
So the Army version of a CAR (Combat Action Ribbon).
As with all awards, depending on who awarded it, it could be legit; or he could have been at the right place at the right time.
The CIB is not just a CAR. Anyone can get shot at once and get a CAR or even just be in a zone where it is possible to get shot at. It is never given for the right place at the right time.
For the CIB you have to be in an infantry unit doing infantry engagements / operations over a certain period of time. The CIB is highly respected and definitely hard earned.
For the CIB you have to be in an infantry unit doing infantry engagements / operations over a certain period of time. The CIB is highly respected and definitely hard earned.
No. That's the Combat Action Badge. The CIB is only awarded to Special Forces and infantry, and you have to be not only assigned to a unit that's engaged, but personally involved in ground combat as an infantryman.
CIB = CAR. If you’re not in an infantry unit you get another special badge in the Army with essentially similar requirements. Not to take away from the CIB, but the requirements to earn a CAR are closely guarded and vetted prior to award. Requires significant authority to sign off as well. Getting mortared or shot at are not simply the only requirements to earn it. You have to physically engage the enemy. The CIB is highly respected but it’s not anything that makes people look twice in the Army. It’s all over the place. Airborne wings with combat jump devices are highly respected over the CIB.
During Desert Storm any ship that entered waters that had the remote possibility of having a minefield had the entire ship awarded a CAR. If I remember rights, it was any ship within a 100 miles or so of the coast line. Anyone on the ground that had one bullet shot in the vicinity of where they were standing (by vicinity I mean within the perimeter of the "base" were awarded a CAR. One of the big stinks is a bunch of the helo crews that landed in country felt they were entitled to both Air Medal points for the flight and a CAR for landing. The CARs were initially approved but later taken back by higher as the awards manual specifically said Strike Flight Air Medal not CAR for aircrew doing missions. There were helo guys on small boys that got CARs because there ships were within 100 miles of the coast and they weren't on missions while on their assigned ship.
During Bosnia, anyone that was on the ground within a certain radius of any fighting, whether they even had a slight wiff of the action or not, was awarded a CAR. Out AIO got a CAR for going on a few hour site visit in country.
I think the Marines on the ground during Desert Storm had different criteria for the CAR but the ones assigned to the ships or Navy units got them when the sailors did..
Might be different or for the Marines, but I was on the battle group awards board for Desert Storm and the CTF awards board for Bosnia.
The CIB is not authorized for wear by Navy or Marine Corps personnel. How easy it is/was to get a CAR was why there was always much hate and discontent by former Army guys when they were told they could wear a CAR instead.
During Bosnia, anyone that was on the ground within a certain radius of any fighting, whether they even had a slight wiff of the action or not, was awarded a CAR. Out AIO got a CAR for going on a few hour site visit in country.
I think the Marines on the ground during Desert Storm had different criteria for the CAR but the ones assigned to the ships or Navy units got them when the sailors did..
Might be different or for the Marines, but I was on the battle group awards board for Desert Storm and the CTF awards board for Bosnia.
The CIB is not authorized for wear by Navy or Marine Corps personnel. How easy it is/was to get a CAR was why there was always much hate and discontent by former Army guys when they were told they could wear a CAR instead.
I stand corrected.
I don't know man, I know some dudes who wear CARs because they were in the chow hall when the other side of the FOB took a mortar. The only danger they were in was choking on their food, or developing hypertension from the amount of salt needed to make it taste good.
But then there was my TBS buddy who was a platoon commander in Now Zad where he experienced daily knock down, drag out, slug fest firefights from the time he showed up until the day he left.
CAR 1=/=CAR 2.
During Desert Storm, it was believed that the Iraqis had released hundreds of free floating mines into the Persian Gulf. Every ship had continuous mine watches with extra lookouts. On TR we did “all back emergency full” numerous times for floating green or black trash bags.
When it was over, every ship was initially able to submit for a CAR based on the “mine threat”. When they realized that was 40,000+ CARs just for the 4 carriers (1day was all it took and there were still transfers on/off during the war plus all the visitors), they decided the ship had to be in an area where a mine was actually sighted. That cut the numbers / eligible ships way down. There were few actually sighted and only the USS Tarawa hit a mine.
There were numerous appeals, IGs and congressionals over this too and it went back and forth a few times. Every CO want a CAR for his ship and every Sailor wanted another ribbon. It was quite the political hot potato.
When it was over, every ship was initially able to submit for a CAR based on the “mine threat”. When they realized that was 40,000+ CARs just for the 4 carriers (1day was all it took and there were still transfers on/off during the war plus all the visitors), they decided the ship had to be in an area where a mine was actually sighted. That cut the numbers / eligible ships way down. There were few actually sighted and only the USS Tarawa hit a mine.
There were numerous appeals, IGs and congressionals over this too and it went back and forth a few times. Every CO want a CAR for his ship and every Sailor wanted another ribbon. It was quite the political hot potato.
Lots of things have changed in 40 years.
I have never heard of scenario 1 ever occurring. Not saying it hasn’t, but it’s nothing I’ve been privy to hear about. I know of many Marines awarded Purple Hearts without corresponding CARs if that’s anything worth noting, and that’s always struck me as odd. Most CARs I have seen awarded have been for direct enemy engagement regardless of MOS. Combat jump devices are a little bit of different story due to the knowingly placing yourself into an in extremis situation. As with most things - right time, right place, and right job. Earning a CIB or CAR is definitely noteworthy, but It’s not something I would particularly swoon over when it comes to career accomplishments.
Do you mean the USS Tripoli? Also the USS Princeton hit a mine during the first Gulf War.