Blue Angels, F4J Phantoms

[Malo83]

Neat video of the Blues when they flew the massive Phantom, check out the yellow flight suits :icon_smil, I remember seeing them in Lemoore and Porterville, during the show in P'ville I remember one of the birds mainmounts broke thru the thin ramp and it stayed an extra day till they broke it free. Those Phantoms put on quite a show the A4and F18 pale in comparison to the big bird in the Visual and Thunder factor :icon_smil

 

[A4sForever]

Neat video of the Blues when they flew the massive Phantom, ....the A4and F18 pale in comparison ...

I dunno -- I always like the A-4 shows best (what a surprise ) as they tended to stay right over the crowd "more" in the vertical. Liked that delta-winged diamond, too. Personal preference ...

 

[loadtoad]

The landing at the end was THE coolest thing I have ever seen. We should learn that during forms in primary!

 

[Flugelman]

The dirty roll on takeoff by one of the solo guys was awesome. Saw it closeup at Whidbey Island one year.

 

[FLY_USMC]

My squadron in Primary had a VHS of the F-4 Blue Angels in our flight room. One thing that stuck out in my mind as interesting was 1) they trucked around with fuselage mounted Sparrows that I "think" weigh right around 500#'s, and 2) they had some pretty "non-standard" comms going on during the show. IE, telling lead that was really nice, saying how pretty the water is today, I think I even heard a yeehaw once if I remember right.....not really the kind of thing you hear the Blues on youtube say now a days, whether they do or not, I could be wrong.

 

[zipmartin]

F-4 show was impressive for the noise and smoke factor, but there wasn't and still isn't anything that can compare to the A-4 show for tight, precision formation flying without long periods of slack time. They stayed in view much longer and kept things moving all the time. And today's teams seem too much like prima donnas instead of just a bunch of Navy guys doing some damn good flying.

 

[plc67]

I first remember the Blues in the F11Fs and they were quite impressive to the ten year old mind. I saw the team when Harley Hall was lead and they were excellent. Unfortunately the Blues has their problems with the F4s and went to the A4 after Mike Murphy and Skip Umstead ran together at Lakehurst. I met Murphy at the Yuma O'Club the day he got selected for the team and he was a quality person.
I think the A4 did the best show but the Thunderchickens in the T-38s looked like they were doing things that airplane wasn't designed to do. I saw the TBirds twice when Col. Cherry was lead and they were impressive. The rollback to arrowhead is about as difficult maneuver there was. But no one,in my extremely biased opinion, compares to the Blue Angels.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I know this sounds stupid, and I think that I know the answer already, but did the F-4 have any kind of auto flaps? If you look about 40 seconds into the video, during the division takeoff, it looks like either -2's flaps are moving at about rotation speed or he's applying full left aileron. The jet doesn't move much, but it just looks kind of like auto flaps type movement. The moving part is hard to tell position on the wing (hence either flap or aileron).

 

[brownshoe]

they had some pretty "non-standard" comms going on during the show. IE, telling lead that was really nice, saying how pretty the water is today, I think I even heard a yeehaw once if I remember right.....not really the kind of thing you hear the Blues on youtube say now a days, whether they do or not, I could be wrong.

I too had a pretty good video of a complete show when they were flying F-4’s. I found it in the advertisements in the rear of a Smithsonian magazine. It was a lot of in cockpit video with all of the plane to plane radio transmissions during the entire show. The lead would talk them through the maneuvers pretty cool stuff. I can remember one transmission “Okay Boss, take it down to the weeds, down to the weeds.” I can’t remember much more, I bought it back in the late 80’s as I recall. Darned thing was about 80 bucks, pretty salty for a video back in those days. I loaned it to a friend and never got it back.

But having worked on A-4’s I too liked it when the Blue Angels flew them, fun to watch. Correct me if I’m wrong, but as I remember they switched from the F-4’s to A-4’s to save fuel. I believe the air force switched from the F-4 to the T’s for the same reason. Or at least that’s what I’d read somewhere. I did like watching F-4’s operate, they had a very unique engine sound when they taxied, they sorta shrieked a bit. I loved it when they went in to AB on takeoff.

Steve

 

[Fog]

HD:
The NATOPS for an F-4 takeoff was half flaps. No flap takeoffs were discouraged [but not prohibited] as they gave you greater V2 speed, so I can only guess that the #2 a/c (lead) quickly put in flaps & then retracted them to slow the a/c an RCH. I was an RIO, not a stickman.

The Navy lost at least a couple of Blue Angel F-4's in accidents and decided to go back to A-4s because (I believe) they were much easier to handle for airshow-type aerobatics than the F-4. If you ever saw a "Low" F-4 show, you would gladly agree that the A-4 is more suited to Blue Angel-type work.

There must be some F-4 drivers out there who can answer both these questions definitively.

 

[bunk22]

I kind of dig the A-4's as well. From the same page:


Were the Blue's A-4's the same as used in the fleet or were they modified...ie lighter, bigger engine, etc? I remember, unfortunetly, as a 14 or 15 years teenager, watching an airshow live on TV when the Solo planes collided. I think it was in 84 or 85 in New York.

 

[brownshoe]

HD:
The NATOPS for an F-4 takeoff was half flaps. No flap takeoffs were discouraged [but not prohibited] as they give you greater V2 speed, so I can only guess that the #2 a/c (lead) quickly put in flaps & then retracted them to slow the a/c an RCH. I was an RIO, not a stickman.

The Navy lost at least a couple of Blue Angel F-4's in accidents and decided to go back to A-4s because (I believe) they were much easier to handle for airshow-type aerobatics than the F-4. If you ever saw a "Low" F-4 show, you would gladly agree that the A-4 is more suited to Blue Angel-type work.

There must be a some F-4 drivers out there who can answer both these questions definitively.

You’re probably right, but I was curious as well so I poked about a bit and did find this information:

"The F-4s large physical size and power did not come without a price, however. After 518 shows, the energy crisis of the early 1970s, ended the era of the Thunderbirds fuel hungry F-4 Phantom. In 1974 the team began flying the smaller Northrop T-38A, Talon. Similarly, the Navy Blue Angels traded in their fleet of Phantoms for a smaller plane, the Douglas A-4 “Sky hawk”.

Obtained from this site

http://www.garypalamara.com/Articles_Tbird_AFM-01.htm

I know it’s an air force related site, so we probably shouldn’t believe them.

Steve

 

[A4sForever]

....Were the Blue's A-4's the same as used in the fleet or were they modified...ie lighter, bigger engine, etc? ...

They were stripped to the basics w/ the addition of the P-408 engine = made the Scooter a rocket, even in the vertical.

That performance, coupled w/ an eye-watering roll rate and great slow speed maneuverability made the A-4 a "natural" for the BLUEs when they moved away from the much higher maintenance, more costly F-4 after some highly publicized crashes. I don't think the F-4 incidents were any more numerous than later A-4 crashes/incidents ... but the A-4 was just a LOT cheaper to operate and provided a great show ... I think they switched in '74 or '75 ...

 

[brownshoe]

They were stripped to the basics w/ the addition of the P-408 engine = made the Scooter a rocket, even in the vertical.

That performance, coupled w/ an eye-watering roll rate and great slow speed maneuverability made the A-4 a "natural" for the BLUEs when they moved away from the much higher maintenance, more costly F-4 after some highly publicized crashes. I don't think the F-4 incidents were any more numerous than later A-4 crashes/incidents ... but the A-4 was just a LOT cheaper to operate and provided a great show ... I think they switched in '74 or '75 ...

Wasn't much to be stripped As I recall the slats were fastened in the closed postion. I've always been curious about that, how 'bout a heads up.

Steve

 

[Brett1]

A4, are the Blues some thing that you apply for in the fleet or are you "selected" and given the opportunity? Did you ever contemplate it or have anyone in your squadron become a member?