BDCP vs. NROTC??? no SNA? MEDICALs? I AM CONFUSED!

[confused_pilot]

To say I am confused would now be an understatemetn! I didnt even know of BDCP until about an hour ago. I am a 3/c Mid in ROTC and I hate it... NO I REALLY HATE IT!. ROTC in my opinion is everything that is wrong with giving a 20 year old power over large groups of people with limited training. Thats not to say I hate the Navy, infact I love the navy and all I have ever wanted to do was fly in the navy. Or fly in general for that matter. I am a pilot now and sitting in the back seat would kill me, so I am trying to lock in some kind of pilot slot. From what I have heard the BDCP sounds like a sure deal and I will probably go talk to my LT about it. Is it worth it to try to get out of ROTC for BDCP? Will CNET let me? Whats this I hear about no new SNA's?? Is evryone in ROTC/USNA/OCS getting screwed the next few years? I am so confused its rediculous. Also I tore my rotator cuff and need surgury, will that dq me? or my flat feet? I want to talk to someone about all my problems, but talk too close to the unit and the walls listen. I dont want anyone to know I want to quit till I have answers
Tony

 

[wink]

Quit ROTC and apply for BDCP and you will be doing a tap dance to explain yourself to the OCS board! Don't think saying you wanted the pilot guarantee is the right answer. You should know by now the navy isn't just looking for pilots but officers first. What officer hasn't had a CO or other boss that was a jerk. You think it is restricted to 20 year old mids? It happens everywhere, civ, mil, all ranks and fields. You going to want to get off active duty or transfer when you have a boss you don't like? Those are the questions the OCS board will want answered. Don't fool yourself. Standing in line behind you with a BDCP application in hand is a hundred guys that don't have to explain how it was they made what they consider a critical life mistake because they didn't do good research on military options and now want to go back on a commitment they made the navy. If it helps you, the ROTC guys and USNA mids usually get first crack at program quotas. Basicly what is left over is filled by OCS candidates. Anything you read here regarding quotas not being available years from now either are wrong or don't apply to mids selecting when 1/c. Tough up. If your leadership is so bad make it your goal to fill their shoes and set a good example for those that will follow you. BTW, I was a civ pilot and went NFO. It didn't kill me. It was a blast. Quit with the dramatics. I knew several other civ pilot/NFOs and it made them better NFOs. You want an exciting job serving your country as a naval officer or training for the airlines? If it is the former, you did make a mistake with a no guarantee contract. Good Luck.

 

[bch]

The entire purpose of giving "20 yrs olds power over eachother" is so that everyone one of you can learn from their leadership shortcomings. You can see the things that you did not like in a person's leadership style, and hopefully you will not use those traits. If you are that frustrated, try putting yourself in that upperclassmen's shoes and think of how you would best deal with a platoon of underclassmen, who don't quite get it yet? It might help to give you a better idea of what you all are supposed to get out of the leadership billets. Part of ROTC is to get you accustomed to living the military life style, and it is one of the REALLY BIG ADVANTAGES that you have over BDCP guys. Their only experience is OCS, not a lot of time to learn how things are done. You will have to deal with the situation you are in right now and also will get to go on summer cruises and see what the real fleet is like. I went in swearing I wanted to be a jet guy, and that all others were lame... After going on multiple cruises, I found I was lame for thinking that way, and since then I have wanted to fly helos. Just give ROTC a chance, You are still new to it and have a ways to go, if you quit now you will be missing out on a real good learning experience.

If you really hate your unit, you need to make sure it is the "unit" you hate, and not the military way of life. If you are wanting to be an aviator.... guess what. Even though you are a commissioned officer, you are still going to be treated like a MIDN (a little better, but not by much)in the training commands. That is another 1.5-2.5 yrs of your life after you commission.


Lastly, just prepare yourself for the fact that you may not even get to go NFO. You may end up being a SWO. But you can always latterally transfer to SNA later on.

As far as the medical thing. If your current unit is going to put you on medical LOA pending the outcome of the surgery, then no other program is going to look the other way until it is healed.

 

[BigWorm]

Hey Bro, I’m with you, I did ROTC for a few years and hated it. Don’t let the little sh1ts get to you because there will be a lot of it dumped on you. The only reason why I could switch to PLC is because I did not have the scholarship. Take your blessings for what they’re worth. Yeah, you’ll put up with crap, stand watch an hour here or there, make some coffee, pick up some doughnuts to fatten the staff up, but your education is paid for. ROTC is one of those programs that you only get out of it what you put in.

The previous posts are right on. You’ll have to look inside and ask your self some of the questions about why you are here, and where you are going. It is a typical attitude problem that many people go through around the 3/C time frame – the learning curve was high your first year, and now you know everything doing the same crap over and over again. If you want it, gut it out, things will get better.

With the medical, seek some of the priors out and ask them some of the “hypothetical questions.” I struggled with the flat feet thing, but gutted it out getting multiple letters from the foot doc saying that I was physically capable. Finally they let me go, and I proved that I could run in standard issue boots even with flat feet.

As far as life at the bottom of the totem pole, get used to it. I’ve been commissioned for a year and a half, and have at least another year or two at the bottom. Once I finally have someone junior to me, I’ll be an old man. Enjoy life, it really is not as bad as your making it out to be, you are just overly focused on the little sh1ts.

 

[confused_pilot]

Well guys, that you for your input. I went and talk to the LT's today, and for the time being I am staying in ROTC it looks like. I also found out that I did infact tear my rotator cuff, and will be getting surgury. Looks like ROTC is going to let me take a semester off since my major is flying, and I can't fly with one arm, imagine that. So I will be able to take some geneds at a community college and be able to graduate one semester early like I was planning. Looking back I what I wrote, I have just been really frustrated mostly waiting to find out what is wrong with my shoulder. It also doesnt really help that my roomate just quit ROTC today and has been keeping a poor image of ROTC in my mind. Makes good sense with the BDCP thing, so for the time being ROTC is what I am staying in. Appriciate the kick in the pants, and any other opinions would be welcome.

 

[bch]

If this is something that you really don't want to be doing, stop before you end up owing the gov LOTS OF MONEY. But if you want to be a naval officer and just not a fan of being a mid, join the club of most mids, but you gotta make the best of it.

 

[wink]

Sorry about the shoulder. Good Luck.

 

[Enrique]

Hi

Well I think this guys i correct on one part. I did ROTC and it was fun in some parts, but some time you had this kids, who knew nothing about hard work, all they do is pretend that they are a 4 star, I hate the fact that some of them make you kiss you know what, just to get a good rating. And if you call that leader ship, we are in the wrong place to lers how to be a leader. And many of this kids think they are leaders, but they don't undertand that to be a good leader you need to be a good follwer. Thats why I want to change to PLC. You don't have to kiss ass to get your wings or yuor rating of an officer..

 

[Ryoukai]

I'm very sure this has been answered before, but the search function lags like nobody's business and it seems to fit in nicely here. What would you say the benefits and pitfalls of NROTC compared to OCS are? Would you reccomend one over the other for a person that does want to serve his country, but would be quite unhappy if not flying? I'm sorry if I offended you by asking this bch, but I'm sure you'll get over it.

 

[rare21]

just want to let you know that in my experience eventually everyone in NROTC thinks of quitting especially in their 3/c year. I know i did and many others in my unit did also. I'm glad i stayed in though. its worth it and i'd rather have gone through ROTC than OCS (from what i hear, everything is paid for!) and now i'm in primary and loving it (officer life, not primary haha). Stick with it i know it will be worth it.

 

[bch]

Enrique,
Like a couple of us said before on this topic (look up), dealing with kids on a power trip is all part of the learning process. THe key is to be able to see these mistakes that an inexperienced leader is making and to ensure that you do not make those same mistakes. You don't have to be under the leadership of a great, or even a good leader for that matter, to learn the do's and don'ts of leadership. I probably learned more from the people I thought were idiots than those that had it together.

Also, do you think you are not going to have to deal with idiots on a power trip in the fleet?? Sadly, just becuase someone is a commissioned officer does not mean that they are great leaders. You'll find that if you stick it out in ROTC you will be better equiped to handle these people, and even help them.

As for NROTC v BDCP. Both are good programs, but it is my opinion that mids in ROTC have a better understanding of how the navy works and are better prepared (initially) to function in the service. Here are my reasons for saying this, and in no way am I saying the BDCP is not a good program that puts out good people...

I am going to start with real minor stuff
NROTC: 1) you are around a navy class/drill at least 4 times a week for at least 4 yrs.
2)You get to interact with officers from most of the different line communities. By doing so you can get different perspectives on what the navy is all about. Also, you get to see a lot more leadership styles than just the OCS drill SGTs.
3)You get to go on Summer Cruise. In my opinion (not necasarily for prior enlisted, but for those like my self that was strait out of high school) this was the biggest learning oportunity I could have asked for. The mids actually go out to the fleet for a month of the summer and train/fam with different communities in the navy/marines. For example, You do CORTRAMID (1 week of each...aviation, subs,swo, marines and a day with the seals.) Then an "enlisted" cruise, you go to a ship with the intent of learning how the enlisted function on a ship. This was a huge learning experience, as you get to see their take on what is needed to be a good leader!! Lastly you go on your 1st class cruise where you pose as a junior officer and do officer like tasks. I went on an aviation cruise and got to fly quite a bit.

These are just a few things. As I said, there is nothing wrong with BDCP or the officer that it produces! But a good deal of my friends who were BDCP wished they had done ROTC after hearing what some of our experiences were like.

 

[virtu050]

I did ROTC for 3 years then went the OCS route. Long story but I believe I got the best and worst of both worlds. Here are the advantages and disadvantages of ROTCS vs. OCS:

ROTC has summer cruise which is a lot of Fun. I visited Naples, Sicily, Gibraltar, Croatia and several bases along the east coast. Got to ride on subs, play marine for a week, had a great month on a DDG destroyer.

But ROTC also is 1 day of drill (wearing your uniform and marching, briefs etc.) every week. You also have to PT once a week and pass a PRT each semester. What sucks about this is that you have added responsibilities to an already hectic college schedule. The 6am PT sessions just didn't mesh with my late night drinking sessions. ;-)

OCS on the other hand is essentially a boot camp for officers. ROTC drill instructors can't really MASH you like OCS at least from my experience. Also, there are like 10 DI's at OCS vs. the one at ROTC. OCS is better for learning discipline, you'll be better at drill and you'll definitely know how to wear the uniform better than ROTC. They teach you things like attention to detail from room locker inspections and personnel inspections- which if you've talked to anyone are the most anal inspections possible.

But the classes are just firehose 1 week courses about the navy versus ROTC's one semester classes which can be more in depth. So ROTC is better for the classwork.

But being in API and having witnessed the products of Academy, ROTC, and OCS graduates I can say for certain that it doesn't matter at all and you'll be hard pressed to tell people's commissioning sources. Actually, I'm most impressed with the coast guard academy's graduates.. at least from the few i've met.

 

[nittany03]

I think the main difference between ROTC and the Academy/OCS routes is that the former environment doesn't shove the things you need to learn down your throat. It makes you go out and earn them, which itself separates the men from the boys (just as a figure of speech to the ladies present) And yes, you get 4 years to assimilate into the military culture. and learn to deal w/ people. I butted heads with the Battalion XO as a junior and wound up on the losing end, so I know how about dealing with a**holes your own age (and learning how not to do so). The important thing to remember as a mid though is that you're training to do something more with your life than live in a cube farm like most of your classmates. So as far as added responsibilities, hell, if you're going to go through flight school you'd better get used to a little responsibility anyway IMHO. Unlike that idiot down here at API who managed to gaff off CNET himself last week

.

But anyway the point is virtu050's right, each commissioning source appeals to a different type of personality and good and bad officers come from all of them. I'd put my ROTC commission up against anybody's. Not to judge anybody in particular, though, but to back out of one commissioning source because you've found a "better one" I think is pretty shady w/o good reasons. The military doesn't exist to serve you, but the other way around. None of us is God's gift to the Navy and I know there's tons of people who would kill to be where I'm at, not even started yet. I'm all for working the system for as many boondoggles as I can safely get my hands on but I still have a job to do, like it or not. End of lecture.

As for the Coasties, yeah, most of the ones I've met have been all right except for one JG in my IFS class who insisted on pulling rank so she could get to go to the school she wanted. Did it with a hell of an attitude, which was the real problem I had. Mentioned how she had 2 years of sea time (one damn surface tour, big deal) and so she should get a slot over "some Ensign who hasn't done anything yet." Naturally she got her way but if you're a JG in aviation and you've got Ensigns calling you "ma'am" to calm you down . . . yeah . . . right . . .

can we spell power trip? Can't wait till she starts telling the IPs how salty she is. Dunno if she was Academy or CG OCS.

 

[Enrique]

Hi

bch

, well the problem that I personaly see in ROTC is that, many of the kids thing they are GOD, yes we can find people in the fleet like this, but I'm sure the enlisted personal, will make he's life a litle harder or other people will tell him that, he is not GOD.

When you have young kids and they don't know anything about hard work, and I'm talking about, labor work. You will find that this kids wont servive in real life if they don't have the experinces that they need, just because you have a college degree this wont make you a good leader or a hot maverick.

Maybe not all ROTC Det's, are like this, but when you go to a school when a great majority of kids have rich parents, and don't work for a living and they think you have the same time as them, it make this dificult. ( i don't like to play around )

And also it makes this hard when some of the kids think they are seals before they go to BUDS, just because they get to pin there seal pin before commisioning or the wings. I don't agree with this.

But over all ROTC is Fun and Hard just like every thing also in life. If I had the parental support that I needed to go to the academy I would, pick the academy as a comisioning source, that is just my opinion.

Hard work pays back.

"Fighter pilots fly with their fangs out and their hair on fire and they look death in the face every day and YOU AIN'T **** IF YOU AIN'T DONE IT."

 

[confused_pilot]

Sorry I have taken a few weeks off this, but my point in the matter is that there is no staff trying to tell the BAT XO or COM what he could be doing better. When they are sitting up their in charge of all the mid's they get a very distorted perception as to how the world revolves, in that they think it revolves around them. On paper it looks flawless, the younger mids learn from the older ones, and progress toward better leadership occurs. Then again communism looks good on paper. In reality the older mids are pissed off cause they got treated like **** when they were 4/c and 3/c, so this is their opportunity for pay back by abusing their power. And the cycle continues. Our old BATCOM went to the USS Churchhill and ended up having a disagreement in her first month with her NCO. It came down to "I am an officer and you are enlisted." The NCO responded, "Mam, you will never get qual'd on my ship." Shows ROTC taught her a lot? Not really, anyways for all of you wondering I am in fact sticking it it, providing they will let me. My shoulder has become a thorn in many sides, and we are waiting to hear what the future of that will bring, but I want to stay in. So where there is a will there's a waiver. As far as PT, I know thats a pain for most of is Mid's. My big problem is that it is not taken into account we have real lives too. Now I don't drink but I do attend classes 10-5 Monday- Saturday. After I get back to my apartment, cook dinner, eat, and clean it is close to 7:30 or 8. Relax for an hour then dive into homework, I am lucky to be done by 1 am. Realistically how effective is it to have me PT at 0600 which means I am awake by 0530. You can only do so much on 4.5 hours of sleep. I stay in shape very well on my own, and I think if we can do that, from what I understand that would be better preparation for the fleet. Then again in this (dis)organization my opinion doesnt count. Finally, I don't know if you are familiar with MOOD (midshipman officer of the day) a typical watch that occurs nightly M-F. Now I am completely ok with this however our BAT XO is a MECEP, and has this crazy idea that he can turn us all into Marines. No offence to the Corps, but do not have those special chemical (im)balences to want to be a Marine. This is NAVAL ROTC, prodominantly preparing mids to be NAVY officier, it does not help when were are required to memorize Marine Corp watch procedures and Marine Corp turnover.