ATF doing ATF Things

[ChuckMK23]

Case in point on the fickle interpretation of braces by BATF

BREAKING: ATF Issues Cease And Desist For Honey Badger Pistol

It was just announced today that Firearms Manufacturer Q LLC has been issued a Cease and Desist by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. The Letter notified Q that the ATF had deemed the Honey Badger pistol as a Short barreled rifle and ordered them to immediately cease production of the...

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[wink]

Case in point on the fickle interpretation of braces by BATF

BREAKING: ATF Issues Cease And Desist For Honey Badger Pistol

It was just announced today that Firearms Manufacturer Q LLC has been issued a Cease and Desist by the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. The Letter notified Q that the ATF had deemed the Honey Badger pistol as a Short barreled rifle and ordered them to immediately cease production of the...

www.thefirearmblog.com

I wonder if what did them in is the fact the brace is standard. Don't all other AR-15 pistols come standard without a brace, and it is added aftermarket?

 

[Gatordev]

I wonder if what did them in is the fact the brace is standard. Don't all other AR-15 pistols come standard without a brace, and it is added aftermarket?

A pistol (or "Other") is a pistol. It can't be something different that what someone has legally transferred it as. That said, there's plenty of "Pistol" marketed firearms that are sold with braces.

 

[wink]

A pistol (or "Other") is a pistol. It can't be something different that what someone has legally transferred it as. That said, there's plenty of "Pistol" marketed firearms that are sold with braces.

Sure. Whatever it is transferred as up and until you can't transfer it as a pistol any longer. That is what happened. Second part of your post answered my question tho. So the lager question remains, what makes the Honey Badger not a pistol anymore and all the others remain pistols? If the answer is nothing, then all the others will fall soon enough, no?

 

[Gatordev]

If the answer is nothing, then all the others will fall soon enough, no?

That's what Chuck and I were mentioning earlier. It would seem inevitable.

 

[wiseguy04]

Too many people writing letters to the ATF asking for “clarification” ??‍♂️

 

[ABMD]

How many different colors are there on that thing?

 

[nittany03]

That thing is so obviously designed to be a shoulder stock it's ludicrous. Most braces I've seen have a couple of flimsy pieces of rubber that wrap around the arm, but it's obvious you can put an arm in there. That thing would be lucky to fit an anorexic model's arm in there. I mean, come on.

If the firearms community spent the effort some of us are spending defending gimmicky corner-case bullshit like AR pistols, gat cranks, bump stocks, and the like into actually reaching out and educating the non gun-owning public on how we're statistically not a threat, we'd be in a lot safer place right now.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Not saying I agree, but after all the hooplah about the Sig brace a few years ago, I'm having a hard time seeing what's surprising about this ruling.

 

[Hair Warrior]

I wonder if what did them in is the fact the brace is standard. Don't all other AR-15 pistols come standard without a brace, and it is added aftermarket?

Negative:
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1907

I think what did them (Honey Badger) in is the strap, or rather, how short and unusable it is. The strap doesn't even pretend to be usable for strapping around a regular sized person's arm. That is what the strap is ostensibly for.

 

[scoolbubba]

That thing so so obviously designed to be a shoulder stock it's ludicrous. Most braces I've seen have a couple of flimsy pieces of rubber that wrap around the arm, but it's obvious you can put an arm in there. That thing would be lucky to fit an anorexic model's arm in there. I mean, come on.

If the firearms community spent the effort some of us are spending defending gimmicky corner-case bullshit like AR pistols, gat cranks, bump stocks, and the like into actually reaching out and educating the non gun-owning public on how we're statistically not a threat, we'd be in a lot safer place right now.

I am not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a holiday inn express last night, but outside transferring the lower to someone while waiting for a stamp, couldn't you just swap the brace for a sig brace or any other of the braces out there and dispose of the original 'brace?'

At this point, I'll vote for whoever runs on a platform of defunding the ATF.

 

[taxi1]

I'm not a gun guy, just a dumb end user. But putting this picture up on a screen for a multiple choice test with pistol or short-barreled rifle as choices, I'd be hard pressed to argue for pistol.

 

[IKE]

I'm not a gun guy, just a dumb end user. But putting this picture up on a screen for a multiple choice test with pistol or short-barreled rifle as choices, I'd be hard pressed to argue for pistol.

Reminds me of I know it when I see it.

I tire of sharing my personal stances/philosophy on AW, but I will say this:
If you are fighting over what defines a controllable firearm vs. a non-controllable firearm, you have de facto conceded that it is right to control firearms.

 

[Hair Warrior]

I'm not a gun guy, just a dumb end user. But putting this picture up on a screen for a multiple choice test with pistol or short-barreled rifle as choices, I'd be hard pressed to argue for pistol.

Which is why the laws (federal/ state/ local) are supposed to be explicitly clear on engineering and measurements, so that it is scientific and not subjective. For example, barrel length of X" long, definition of suppressor, or definition of fully automatic vs. semi-automatic.

By the way, if any law is unconstitutionally vague (i.e. invites subjectivity), then it can be nullified and stricken by a court, and the legislative body will have to go back and craft a law that is not unconstitutionally vague. More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagueness_doctrine

 

[Griz882]

I'm not a gun guy, just a dumb end user. But putting this picture up on a screen for a multiple choice test with pistol or short-barreled rifle as choices, I'd be hard pressed to argue for pistol.

Depends, does it shoot the blue or green laser bolt?