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18 SEP 18 IWC Board

wakefijw

Member
I actually just submitted by app yesterday. I don’t finish my Masters until next year, but I see no harm in applying this round.
 

vancii

Member
My OR informed me today that they increased the OAR and GPA requirements for some positions effective June. From what I read I came up with this as the new minimum requirements:

Summary of Changes

Intel
OAR of 50 up from 45
GPA of 3.0 up from 2.8 (Graduate degree with GPA above 3.0 will supersede undergraduate degree with non-qualifying GPA)

CW
OAR of 45 (same as before but higher than 50 is preferred)
GPA of 2.8 up from 2.5

IP
OAR of 50
GPA of 2.8

I found this link with the new PA. https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/officer/communitymanagers/Pages/Program-Authorizations.aspx
 

Law_to_1830

Active Member
Assuming my contact in the Intel community can get me an interview in time, I plan on applying for this board as well.

Question: My undergrad GPA is much higher than my JD GPA - though both are above 3.0. Will they use my undergrad GPA?
  • 30 years old, no prior service
  • B.A. in Pre-Law 3.81 GPA
    • Classes emphasized history, foreign language, economics, and English
  • J.D. (Juris Doctorate) 3.1 GPA, The College of William & Mary
    • Classes emphasized criminal law, national security law, and international law
  • National Debate Champion 2009 (topic was US foreign policy towards China)
  • Fluent in Spanish
  • Basic-to-Intermediate skill in Japanese
  • 4 years’ experience as an attorney at a major multi-state law firm
  • Prior pro bono work for a Veteran’s Benefits Clinic (my clients were disabled vets from all branches and I got them their VA Benefits)
  • 67 OAR
  • LORs:
    • USN O-3 Navy Intel officer and close friend of mine
    • USN O-5 Doctor and close friend of mine
    • Attorney w/ 40+ years of experience (my immediate supervisor)
    • Attorney w/ 30+ years of experience (the head of the law firm)
  • Waiting to get an interview so I can apply again.
  • I plan on applying for Intel 1830, Cryptology 1810, and SWO-IP 1160 (assuming that still exists)
Since I'm 30 years old and already an attorney, Intel is pretty much my only option. JAG isn't really interested in people who are already attorneys (their Direct Appointment program for attorneys has 1 board per year and usually only 1-4 selected nationwide). SWO and NFO aren't interested in 30-somethings. That's fine by me, since Intel is by far my preferred option. However, I know it's extremely difficult to get into Intel. I plan on learning Mandarin once I'm a bit further along in my Japanese.
 
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NavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Assuming my contact in the Intel community can get me an interview in time, I plan on applying for this board as well.

Question: My undergrad GPA is much higher than my JD GPA - though both are above 3.0. Will they use my undergrad GPA?
  • 30 years old, no prior service
  • B.A. in Pre-Law 3.81 GPA
    • Classes emphasized history, foreign language, economics, and English
  • J.D. (Juris Doctorate) 3.1 GPA, The College of William & Mary
    • Classes emphasized criminal law, national security law, and international law
  • National Debate Champion 2009 (topic was US foreign policy towards China)
  • Fluent in Spanish
  • Basic-to-Intermediate skill in Japanese
  • 4 years’ experience as an attorney at a major multi-state law firm
  • Prior pro bono work for a Veteran’s Benefits Clinic (my clients were disabled vets from all branches and I got them their VA Benefits)
  • 67 OAR
  • LORs:
    • USN O-3 Navy Intel officer and close friend of mine
    • USN O-5 Doctor and close friend of mine
    • Attorney w/ 40+ years of experience (my immediate supervisor)
    • Attorney w/ 30+ years of experience (the head of the law firm)
  • Waiting to get an interview so I can apply again.
  • I plan on applying for Intel 1830, Cryptology 1810, and SWO-IP 1160 (assuming that still exists)
Since I'm 30 years old and already an attorney, Intel is pretty much my only option. JAG isn't really interested in people who are already attorneys (their Direct Appointment program for attorneys has 1 board per year and usually only 1-4 selected nationwide). SWO and NFO aren't interested in 30-somethings. That's fine by me, since Intel is by far my preferred option. However, I know it's extremely difficult to get into Intel. I plan on learning Mandarin once I'm a bit further along in my Japanese.
Foreign languages are essentially of no use to officers, not one of the Intel officers I knew ever used it. If translation is needed we have enlisted sailors for that work.
 

Law_to_1830

Active Member
Thank you for this.
You're certainly welcome! I come from a Navy family, so it's the least I can do.

As for languages, I believe I read in the Program Authorization 108A from May 2018 for the Intel program that "certifiable foreign language skills and cultural background/expertise is highly desirable, but not required." I know Spanish and Japanese aren't as useful as Arabic, Farsi, Hindi, or Mandarin, but that's what I have at this point.

Plus, I just enjoy languages. They're a hobby of mine.

CW and IP highly highly prefer STEM majors, which you don't have.
Understood. My main interest is Intel, but everyone here and in person has advised me to at least include CW as well. It certainly can't hurt to include it.

There's really not much else I can include for 2nd or 3rd choice since I'm too old for SWO or NFO. If you know of anything else I could potentially qualify for, I'd be happy to include it!
 

Attachments

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NavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
You're certainly welcome! I come from a Navy family, so it's the least I can do.

As for languages, I believe I read in the Program Authorization 108A from May 2018 for the Intel program that "certifiable foreign language skills and cultural background/expertise is highly desirable, but not required." I know Spanish and Japanese aren't as useful as Arabic, Farsi, Hindi, or Mandarin, but that's what I have at this point.

Plus, I just enjoy languages. They're a hobby of mine.



Understood. My main interest is Intel, but everyone here and in person has advised me to at least include CW as well. It certainly can't hurt to include it.

There's really not much else I can include for 2nd or 3rd choice since I'm too old for SWO or NFO. If you know of anything else I could potentially qualify for, I'd be happy to include it!
The Intel guys I had selected didn't speak any foreign language, at least it wasn't put on their applications since it was something they knew due to their background, such as Spanish or Vietnamese.
 

Law_to_1830

Active Member
The Intel guys I had selected didn't speak any foreign language, at least it wasn't put on their applications since it was something they knew due to their background, such as Spanish or Vietnamese.
OK, that's good to know. Obviously it's not a requirement or anything, but if the PA that vancii found is accurate, it will hopefully help my chances of getting in at least a little bit.
 

wakefijw

Member
I know I'm a bit of a long shot (at least until my Masters is completed) but I figured it wouldn't hurt to at least put a package in now:

Applying for 1830 (Intel) and 1820 (IP)
STS1 (SS/IW) 7 Years Active Duty
BS Elementary Education GPA 3.2
MS Cyber Security GPA 4.0 (12 Credits Left)
OAR 55
Interviews: 1 O6 (1170) 1 O6 (1830) 1 O5 (1830)
Sailor of the Quarter 1st Q 2018

This time next year I'll have my degree finished, I also plan on completing some Certs such as Security + and SSCP.
 

NavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
OK, that's good to know. Obviously it's not a requirement or anything, but if the PA that vancii found is accurate, it will hopefully help my chances of getting in at least a little bit.
unfortunately not really, I had a few candidates that spoke arabic fluently and none were picked, they had non-tech degrees average GPA's, a couple ended up getting picked up for SWO later on.

If they want to make the PA accurate instead of foreign language they should put "proficient in MS Office Suite, ideally PowerPoint"
 

Law_to_1830

Active Member
unfortunately not really, I had a few candidates that spoke arabic fluently and none were picked, they had non-tech degrees average GPA's, a couple ended up getting picked up for SWO later on.

If they want to make the PA accurate instead of foreign language they should put "proficient in MS Office Suite, ideally PowerPoint"
I'm not particularly interested in getting drawn into a debate on this issue; it sounds like you're actually debating against positions I never even held. I never contended that language skills are actually used as part of the job, nor that they are weighed heavily in the application, and certainly not that they could save a mediocre application or doom a great one. So individual cases where Arabic speakers get rejected and those with no foreign language skills are accepted doesn't really change what the PA says.

Though, since my interview is still pending, I will likely have to sit this one out and wait for the next board anyway.

I'm getting to the point where I'm seriously considering applying for the FBI, CIA, or NCIS simply to add more relevant work experience to my next Navy Intel application. I would go back for another degree, but I can't afford to quit my attorney job and add more student loan debt on top of law school debt.

They have some crazy formula they use to combine both GPAs and find an average. Something to do with credit hours.
Fascinating! It would be really interesting to see that formula!
 
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NavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I'm not particularly interested in getting drawn into a debate on this issue; it sounds like you're actually debating against positions I never even held. I never contended that language skills are actually used as part of the job, nor that they are weighed heavily in the application, and certainly not that they could save a mediocre application or doom a great one. So individual cases where Arabic speakers get rejected and those with no foreign language skills are accepted doesn't really change what the PA says.

Though, since my interview is still pending, I will likely have to sit this one out and wait for the next board anyway.

I'm getting to the point where I'm seriously considering applying for the FBI, CIA, or NCIS simply to add more relevant work experience to my next Navy Intel application. I would go back for another degree, but I can't afford to quit my attorney job and add more student loan debt on top of law school debt.



Fascinating! It would be really interesting to see that formula!
Not at all, there is and has been for years a disconnect as to what the PA says, and what the board actually picks, it is about setting realistic expectations for the candidates, setting those realistic expectations is what made me such a good OR, I am still in regular conversation with people I put in years ago, as well as those that didn't get in.

Why not look at those other options too? To me those see like they would be pretty cool jobs.

I think the formula she is talking about is how you add up all the GPA points earned and divide by all the GPA credits attempted.
 
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