• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Should I stay or should I go? Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love HSC.

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
Then where would the Romeos go? They still need to have a home and if loadtoads comment is accurate (which I'm not arguing), then there's still no space for the excess Rs.

For the Seirra guys, is there a RAST interface (read: hole) in the Sierra, like there was in a Fox? I don't remember seeing one, but it's not something I ever thought to look for.

ETA: Simu-post with red-stang65. Sounds like no.
Whenever in doubt about whether the Sierra has something or could have something that the B/F/H/R had/has, remember... the MH-60S was conceived as the "CH-60S Marinized Blackhawk for VERTREP." (seriously, that was the official program name.) It's a Blackhawk w/ auto blade fold and painted gray.
 

HSMPBR

Not a misfit toy
pilot
Then where would the Romeos go? They still need to have a home and if loadtoads comment is accurate (which I'm not arguing), then there's still no space for the excess Rs.

For the Seirra guys, is there a RAST interface (read: hole) in the Sierra, like there was in a Fox? I don't remember seeing one, but it's not something I ever thought to look for.

ETA: Simu-post with red-stang65. Sounds like no.
The tailwheel and DMO concept make MH-60S on CRUDES a no-go. It’ll be hard to straighten when the tail wheel is off the flight deck. It’ll be hard to spread out and kill everything when MTS is the longest sensor.
 

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
Not in the same way as the F/H, but there is a Sierra Traversing Apparatus (STrAp) that can replace the cargo hook and uses the RAST. It’s very similar to what’s used when transporting the Sierra on a C17, but with some modifications. It’s discussed in NATOPS, but not sure how prevalent it is or who manages it (Wing vs squadron, etc).
It seems I don't know everything.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Ok, what about putting an LCS-2 (Indy variant) in the CSG, and having that LCS be “plane guard special duty” if/when the 3x Sierras on the CVN are unavailable for plane guard duty? LCS-2 has a larger flight deck than an Arleigh Burke, if I’m not mistaken, and it’s a nice square shape. According to the vendor, the flight deck is theoretically big enough to accommodate a -53.

ref: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/lcs-specs.htm

Bonus:
. Cheaper and smaller crew than DDG
. Can go off and “do LCS things” when not required for plane guard (cue engine trouble jokes)
. “Finally finds something useful” for LCSs to do besides counter-narco in C4F (?)
 
Last edited:

red_stang65

Well-Known Member
pilot
The tailwheel and DMO concept make MH-60S on CRUDES a no-go. It’ll be hard to straighten when the tail wheel is off the flight deck. It’ll be hard to spread out and kill everything when MTS is the longest sensor.
Sierras on CRUDES have been done before— PREBLE (DDG) and MOBILE BAY (CG) I believe, and for several months. Tail wheel and MTS were a concern, but not impossible to deal with. The biggest issue was the operational cost of losing the Romeo.
DMO doesn’t necessarily only mean DDG/CG (ie: CLFs and ESBs).
 

HSMPBR

Not a misfit toy
pilot
Sierras on CRUDES have been done before— PREBLE (DDG) and MOBILE BAY (CG) I believe, and for several months. Tail wheel and MTS were a concern, but not impossible to deal with. The biggest issue was the operational cost of losing the Romeo.
DMO doesn’t necessarily only mean DDG/CG (ie: CLFs and ESBs).
That’s awesome. I figured with the traverse apparatus in the same position on the aircraft that the tailwheel would be off the fantail. Do you have to land further forward than normal for a free deck?

Concur on ESB and the green water side of DMO for MH-60S.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Ok, what about putting an LCS-2 (Indy variant) in the CSG, and having that LCS be “plane guard special duty” if/when the 3x Sierras on the CVN are unavailable for plane guard duty? LCS-2 has a larger flight deck than an Arleigh Burke, if I’m not mistaken, and it’s a nice square shape. According to the vendor, the flight deck is theoretically big enough to accommodate a -53.

ref: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/lcs-specs.htm

Bonus:
. Cheaper and smaller crew than DDG
. Can go off and “do LCS things” when not required for plane guard (cue engine trouble jokes)
. “Finally finds something useful” for LCSs to do besides counter-narco in C4F (?)
You're making PG out to be too much of a thing. If people cared that much they'd find room for a 4th 60S instead of dragging around another boat (that has other jobs to do). 3 a/c is more than enough to do PG with manageable risk that can be mitigated with creative thinking within the CSG if 3 helos break at once. Frankly, you could have 10 helps and they could still all break at once, theres no "no risk" option.
 

RedFive

Well-Known Member
pilot
None
Contributor
One of the issues with Sierras on the small boys is traversing. Without RAST, your options are limited, and sea state limits for those options are fairly constrained.
Not in the same way as the F/H, but there is a Sierra Traversing Apparatus (STrAp) that can replace the cargo hook and uses the RAST. It’s very similar to what’s used when transporting the Sierra on a C17, but with some modifications. It’s discussed in NATOPS, but not sure how prevalent it is or who manages it (Wing vs squadron, etc).
This is not correct. HSC will never use the cargo hook/rast apparatus because it's dangerous and sketchy as hell. We tried it with our guys before our small boy AUF deployment and decided to use the MK-II Douglas Handler instead. The Douggie was more than adequate to traverse the bird. Not only was it quick, but we didn't have any of the sliding or weight bearing issues you see on LCS with MANTIS.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I figured with the traverse apparatus in the same position on the aircraft that the tailwheel would be off the fantail. Do you have to land further forward than normal for a free deck?

Didn't even think about the tailwheel. #seahawklife. That's a good point.

We tried it with our guys before our small boy AUF deployment and decided to use the MK-II Douglas Handler instead. The Douggie was more than adequate to traverse the bird.

I'm assuming Block 1 birds? This isn't meant to argue your point, as it's apples and oranges, but I can't imagine trying to "tilly-bar" an operational Romeo across a wet small boy deck in any kind of seas. But I get it, it's a different animal with different physics behind it.
 

red_stang65

Well-Known Member
pilot
This is not correct. HSC will never use the cargo hook/rast apparatus because it's dangerous and sketchy as hell. We tried it with our guys before our small boy AUF deployment and decided to use the MK-II Douglas Handler instead. The Douggie was more than adequate to traverse the bird. Not only was it quick, but we didn't have any of the sliding or weight bearing issues you see on LCS with MANTIS.
Sorry, I think I’m missing what was incorrect about my description. STraP is only one of a few options, with the Handler and MANTIS being the other two. The other option is just manual movements with progressive chocks and chains.

Concur with the sketchiness of STraP. Plus, I doubt the sacrificial flange is readily available in the supply system. MANTIS and Douggie have had some major issues with maintenance, repairability, and decreasing support from FRC.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
MANTIS and Douggie have had some major issues with maintenance, repairability, and decreasing support from FRC.
Did they ever make it waterproof? Nothing like being in the middle of a move and the damn thing dies.

and there’s all of one person that’s ever done an afloat manual move.
 
Top