Why are you Leaving?

[phrogdriver]

To that end, I'm not sure it's the flight hours so much as the working conditions and leadership. As conditions in the military get worse, it'll get harder and harder to retain.

Flight hours in commercial aviation are not the same as military. I don't think people are leaving to experience the majestic joy of flight. I think it's more " You mean I can get paid the same or more and work less?" Am I wrong?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

To that end, I'm not sure it's the flight hours so much as the working conditions and leadership. As conditions in the military get worse, it'll get harder and harder to retain.

Flight hours in commercial aviation are not the same as military. I don't think people are leaving to experience the majestic joy of flight I think it's more " You mean I can get paid the same or more and work less?" Am I wrong?

I haven't been hired yet, but that seems right. I enjoy flying C-12's, but not like I enjoyed flying harriers. More flight time for fleet squadrons would be nice, but less bullshit, less motherhood, less IA's would be better. The USMC is focused on ground MOS's, and issues like IA's, promotion rates, taking aviators from their fleet tours for "blended seminar EWS" show it.

I wouldn't have stayed either way, because although I loved what I did, I got sick of living in shitty places and waiting for a bad deal to fall on me. Working less and making a lot more is the main factor, and knowing that the sooner you can get in the door (airline or new profession) the better for your long term earning potential and quality of life seals the deal.

 

[BarrettRC8]

Non-existent. I don't get the feeling that it will be back in the immediate future, either. People should just be happy they get to wear the uniform and occasionally fly grey planes. More with less. Expeditionary.

Sounds like you and I received the same brief from the same individual.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Sounds like you and I received the same brief from the same individual.

I've been flying some of them around recently. I didn't expect DCA to come by H&HS so I didn't show up, (and I legitimately had a night flight later) but apparently he asked:

"who's the C-12 pilot that flew 600 hours last year".

My CO: "that's capt treetop flyer".

DCA: "oh neat, is he headed back to the fleet?"

My CO: "uh.... I don't think so"

Awkward silence.

He has a tough job though, I don't envy that.

 

[fc2spyguy]

Many reasons. One of which has to do with CAPTs and above making promises that are being fulfilled by maintainers. How are they fulfilling them? Working federal holidays and weekends with late notice on the weekends.

 

[Rugby_Guy]

As someone who is just starting, as opposed to leaving soon, what can I do to make my time less painful? I remember hearing grumblings about the squadron "golden boy" who gets to go to WTI/TopGun etc and always seems to get the good deals. Is this simply the best stick, a guy who happens to have his timing just workout well or just someone new who gets "chosen" to be groomed?

Is there anything I can do (without being a kiss-@ss) to get me recommended for FRS or other flying b billets later on?

 

[armada1651]

Is this simply the best stick, a guy who happens to have his timing just workout well or just someone new who gets "chosen" to be groomed?

Yes.

 

[armada1651]

Is there anything I can do (without being a kiss-@ss) to get me recommended for FRS or other flying b billets later on?

I can't speak to the Marine Corps specifically, but generally speaking: work hard, be a good dude, learn as much as you can about as many options as you can, and choose what sounds cool to you. The rest will work itself out.

 

[nittany03]

Yes.

I can't speak to the Marine Corps specifically, but generally speaking: work hard, be a good dude, learn as much as you can about as many options as you can, and choose what sounds cool to you. The rest will work itself out.

This. Your timing is what it is, and Big Navy/MC value what they value. That's known. But within that, your head shed and DHs will have their own interpretations. They'll like who they like, dislike who they dislike, and have their own view on what a "golden child" looks like . . . because they're people.

All you can do is bust your ass, try not to burn yourself out, and hope you not only get in with a good ready room, but one that stays good for your tour. Regardless of how things shake out, spending time with a group of people who build each other up and have each other's back is far, far better than High School Take 2. Some people and some ready rooms understand that you can hold a standard and evaluate people without being personal or douchey about it. Some don't, and equate your worth as a person with what you do in the cockpit. Wherever you end up, don't be that guy.

 

[Ektar]

I'm stealing something I read on here to describe your outcome in the squadron. I think it came from Pickles...not sure. But, I've shared this with MIDN. Here it is:

Your time and success in the squadron has to do with the 3 Ts. Timing, Track, and Talent. The Navy controls the timing and your track. You control the talent. Work hard, have a good attitude, be open to criticism that leads to improvement, and try to have some fun while you are at it. If you can look back at your time with no regrets, then you did everything right in my opinion.

 

[jtmedli]

Is there anything I can do (without being a kiss-@ss) to get me recommended for FRS or other flying b billets later on?

Work hard. Be the guy who gives a shit about making your squadron/unit a better place and shows it. Be a good person who has fun with the rest of the wardroom. Take every chance you get to learn as much as you can about every job no matter how shitty or how great of a deal it is. Just take every opportunity to work hard and learn as much as you can about Big Navy or The Corps as you can, while you can. Then take it from there. You'll have little to no control over where you end up. There are Golden Boys everywhere (civilian and likewise) so don't stress too much about them getting whatever they want. It'll just make you look bad.

 

[DanMa1156]

Was told in the FRS: "Be a good pilot, a good officer, and a good dude and you'll get taken care of if you can do at least 2 out of those 3."

I excelled in 2/3, and was average on one of them, and sure enough, despite possibly the worst timing in the world, generally got taken care of and am very happy where I am right now, despite my questionable career prospects.

 

[Uncle Fester]

As someone who is just starting, as opposed to leaving soon, what can I do to make my time less painful? I remember hearing grumblings about the squadron "golden boy" who gets to go to WTI/TopGun etc and always seems to get the good deals. Is this simply the best stick, a guy who happens to have his timing just workout well or just someone new who gets "chosen" to be groomed?

Is there anything I can do (without being a kiss-@ss) to get me recommended for FRS or other flying b billets later on?

Wherever you wind up, don't waste your time there.

From your first day in Pensacola to the day you get to your Fleet squadron, study your ass off, don't complain, and don't ask for anything special unless you really, really need it. You'll have bad days - everyone does - but your reputation is your currency. A reputation for being a "works really hard, keeps his ears open, asks good questions, and never bitches or complains" cone buys back a lot of bad days when you need it.

If you don't get the pipeline or community or coast you wanted, take the weekend to cry into your beer, then get over it and back to working your ass off. Never be that asshole with a "I had jet grades, the Wing screwed me" chip on his shoulder. Nobody likes that guy. Every community takes pride itself and nobody wants someone who thinks he deserved better than to be stuck with you.

When you get to the Fleet, reset your salty-meter, eyes open, mouth shut. Learn everything you can about fighting that airplane. School's not over just because you're out of the RAG. School never stops as long as you're flying. You can always learn something new. But don't be a NATOPS trivia dork who shows off knowing useless things because you're a shitty pilot/WSO/controller/etc. Your job is to fly safely and fight to win, not be a half-assed Encyclopedia Brown.

Never waste a tour. If you're gonna be a company man and take the 'golden path' tours, then do well on those tours. Don't always be looking at the next thing and checking blocks and trying to game the fitreps. If you take a more laid-back tour, make it work for you. Learn something new or earn a degree or meet the people in the industry you want to move to, but don't spend 24-30 months coasting. Work hard for the Navy or work hard for yourself, but don't waste your time.

Do those things and your career will take care of itself, one way or another.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Opportunity = Luck + Preparation. Sometimes things are beyond your control timing wise and there is nothing you can do - that's life. However, if you prepare and then an opportunity unexpectedly presents itself, you are in great shape.

Also, once a Golden Child does not necessarily mean always a Golden Child. Have seen guys who were being groomed by the CO suddenly hit full stop when the new CO came in and had his own ideas.

 

[Jim123]

I thought the saying was luck is where opportunity and preparation meet. That would mean

Luck = Opportunity + Preparation

the corollary of which would be

Opportunity = Luck - Preparation

therefore,

The more you prepare, the less your opportunity.

Q.E.D.


(This is matches the traditional advice to enjoy Pensacola instead of studying ahead for API.)