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USN Rotary to Airline Transition?

fc2spyguy

Less than a year to retirement.
pilot
Contributor
#46
Just as an FYI. I was at a mil to civilian hiring seminar yesterday. Speaking with a few of the regional recruiters two more companies, both owned by AA, are going to begin a rotary transition program. Piedmont and PSA, with PSA rolling theirs out in the next week or so and Piedmont by the end of this quarter. It seems they're seeing this group of pilots only missing the 250 fixed wing requirement and trying to jump on it. So, things are looking up for us rotorheads trying to go to "The Show."
 

Purdue

Chicks Dig Rotors...
pilot
#48
An update to the RTP courses out there:

The VA has pushed back and as of last week is no longer willing to pay for some ratings, and this is causing some issues. I've heard (and am waiting for e-mails to confirm) that the Piedmont and PSA programs have been shelved because of this change.

The Envoy program has shifted gears, and is still trying to work with the VA to fix the issue if possible, or find a way around it.

In the meantime Envoy is now officially cutting checks to RTP guys to issue them the $17,100 sign-on bonus at the start of your time-building, so you can use it to pay for anything above the $23k the company covers. (before, you didn't get the $17,100 or $22,100 bonuses until you completed timebuild and showed up to headquarters in Dallas for Indoc)

I am currently through RTP at Envoy and almost to the flightline here. Anyone looking to join, reach out to me and I'll answer any and all questions you have. I can also fast-track you to the recruiter/interview.

An update on Envoy as well, the most recent Captain at Envoy was a July2015 Hire. So, that puts the FO to Captain flow at only 22 months!
 

fc2spyguy

Less than a year to retirement.
pilot
Contributor
#49
Are you saying the multi engine isn't being covered by the GI bill anymore? What about CFI/CFII/MEI? This is fucking bullshit. Time to contact the congressional mil rep if that's the case.
 

ChuckM

Active Member
pilot
#52
Fixed wing.

Some of it... seems Envoy is crediting everything post solo as PIC.

Sounds dick but I don't mean it that way: google ATP minimums or lookup the FAR.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
#54
Fixed wing.

Some of it... seems Envoy is crediting everything post solo as PIC.

Sounds dick but I don't mean it that way: google ATP minimums or lookup the FAR.
For FAA licenses/aeronautical experimce it is Part 61 PIC.

For major airline applications it is Part 1 PIC.

So it makes sense that they are doing this because they want to get you to FAA not Show minimums.
 

ChuckM

Active Member
pilot
#55
No details, per se, other than Coast (Envoy) has opted to no longer participate in VA funding.

As I understand it, The VA turned off money for a commercial multi engine add on without first having a commercial single engine rating. With no explanation they arbitrated that despite army pilots being commercial pilots (helicopter), they could not add a new category to thier commercial rating without first getting single engine commercial. The funny thing is much larger flight schools (ATP) advocate doing your initial commercial in the Multi to build multi time, making yourself more marketable.

Based on a conversation with one of thier senior managers at the school, they see (saw) the VA as a necessary evil, as VA funding has to go through a 141 school. 141 dictates an approved syllabus and that frankly slows things down with stage checks (wasted flight hours), etc. It's cumbersome and slow compared to how they would like to do the training. Tie this in with the fact that they have moved to TX for RTP training, and that the school they have established there has not been open for two years (a requirement for 141 status), they can grow that faster if they move away from Sandiego (the only place they can do 141/VA training).

I think the outcome demonstrates that they are more inclined to figure out other revenue streams. Like the new hire bonus up front provided it pays for flight training, or AOPA loans for training, etc. (both of which are in place)

I'm a little out of the loop at the school since life has high jacked my free (instructional) time in the last couple months. I'll be plugging back in in the next couple months. Anyone interested in the program should just reach out to them. They are very straight forward and transparent about how they money works.
 
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ChuckM

Active Member
pilot
#56
For FAA licenses/aeronautical experimce it is Part 61 PIC.

For major airline applications it is Part 1 PIC.

So it makes sense that they are doing this because they want to get you to FAA not Show minimums.
Yeah kinda. They have thier own internal examiners at the schoolhouse where they give ATP checkrides, so they can get away with it. No DPE would count the hours they count if you showed them your mil logbook.

I personally have issues with thier ascertain that your initial safe for solo constitutes being "rated" in the plane (sole manipulator PIC requires being "rated"). But I can see thier angle. Honestly though, who would argue you are acting as the aircraft commander in any of the primary training. (With the exception of solos - all of which require a safe for solo stated in the previous gradesheet, again at no point are you rated). We were not in any way rated (NATOPS) in that plane as SNAs.

I believe they claim it's SPIC (supervised PIC) but that was only meant to cover folks who needed PIC time in an aircraft that for insurance purposes cannot be rented to a student. In theory the instructor is literally supposed to sandbag all decisions unless an emergency arises. The issue here is that instruction was taking place in the plane. So that too is wrong.

At the end of the day Navy helicopter guys are getting a brake and saving a lot of money getting to the airlines this way, so who am I to wave the bullshit flag.... I just think they are one visit from an FAA rep who actually understands military training from it all crashing down.
 

DAMIEN

Not Dead Yet
#57
An update to the RTP courses out there:

The VA has pushed back and as of last week is no longer willing to pay for some ratings, and this is causing some issues. I've heard (and am waiting for e-mails to confirm) that the Piedmont and PSA programs have been shelved because of this change.

The Envoy program has shifted gears, and is still trying to work with the VA to fix the issue if possible, or find a way around it.

In the meantime Envoy is now officially cutting checks to RTP guys to issue them the $17,100 sign-on bonus at the start of your time-building, so you can use it to pay for anything above the $23k the company covers. (before, you didn't get the $17,100 or $22,100 bonuses until you completed timebuild and showed up to headquarters in Dallas for Indoc)

I am currently through RTP at Envoy and almost to the flightline here. Anyone looking to join, reach out to me and I'll answer any and all questions you have. I can also fast-track you to the recruiter/interview.

An update on Envoy as well, the most recent Captain at Envoy was a July2015 Hire. So, that puts the FO to Captain flow at only 22 months!
I am looking into this program and was curious as to how you logged your T-34 time on the airline app that packages it all together for the interview.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 

jtmedli

Well-Known Member
pilot
#58
No details, per se, other than Coast (Envoy) has opted to no longer participate in VA funding.

As I understand it, The VA turned off money for a commercial multi engine add on without first having a commercial single engine rating. With no explanation they arbitrated that despite army pilots being commercial pilots (helicopter), they could not add a new category to thier commercial rating without first getting single engine commercial. The funny thing is much larger flight schools (ATP) advocate doing your initial commercial in the Multi to build multi time, making yourself more marketable.

Based on a conversation with one of thier senior managers at the school, they see (saw) the VA as a necessary evil, as VA funding has to go through a 141 school. 141 dictates an approved syllabus and that frankly slows things down with stage checks (wasted flight hours), etc. It's cumbersome and slow compared to how they would like to do the training. Tie this in with the fact that they have moved to TX for RTP training, and that the school they have established there has not been open for two years (a requirement for 141 status), they can grow that faster if they move away from Sandiego (the only place they can do 141/VA training).

I think the outcome demonstrates that they are more inclined to figure out other revenue streams. Like the new hire bonus up front provided it pays for flight training, or AOPA loans for training, etc. (both of which are in place)

I'm a little out of the loop at the school since life has high jacked my free (instructional) time in the last couple months. I'll be plugging back in in the next couple months. Anyone interested in the program should just reach out to them. They are very straight forward and transparent about how they money works.
Seems like Navy guys would still be good to go right? We get the commercial single-engine and rotary stuff out of advanced.
 

Randy Daytona

I want rock n roll - yes I do.
pilot
Super Moderator
#59
Wonder if this cancellation of benefits is backlash for what happened with the massive aviation charges a few years ago. GI Bill paying out $500,000 is probably not what the authors had in mind.

U.S. taxpayers stuck with the tab as helicopter flight schools exploit GI Bill loophole

For two years of training to become a pilot, the government often pays more than $250,000, over twice the amount non-veterans pay at many schools, The Times has found from interviews, government documents, price lists and flight school contracts.

At one flight company — Utah-based Upper Limit Aviation — records show 12 veterans whose training had cost the government more than $500,000 each.


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-me-adv-gibill-20150315-story.html
 

ChuckM

Active Member
pilot
#60
Seems like Navy guys would still be good to go right? We get the commercial single-engine and rotary stuff out of advanced.
Yep. Most decidedly a rotary gold-winger Has the pre requisites to satisfy the VAs requirement. But I'd be amazed if you can't get damn near everything done for that ~23K that Envoy is ponying up. Especially now that there is no expectation that you use the GI bill to add your ME rating, Envoy is actually forced to pony up all of what they advertise.

I will say the money would go farther if you weren't paying CA price tags for TX training... so many things to nitpick, but on the whole it's an amazing deal.