The epiphany was probably the Jordanian F-16 pilot getting torched, and it took the bureaucracy this long.Exactly - why now? What was the epiphany that caused the AF to fund 7-8 figures for this program and stand up an armory modifying 100 rifles per week - not to mention the engineering mods to the seat/seat pak and unit level SOP for qualification, training and administration of said weapons and ammo. Is it a result of gearing up to face a nation state adversary?
The epiphany was probably the Jordanian F-16 pilot getting torched, and it took the bureaucracy this long.
The epiphany was probably the Jordanian F-16 pilot getting torched, and it took the bureaucracy this long.
No.Would an M-4 have made a difference?
If he had used it, YES!!!! He would have sent some unknown number of the bastards to hell, and maybe even caught a blessed bullet of his own that would have spared his family and friends seeing him burned to death. True, end result the same. Net result, not even close.
It's just an opinion. You're welcome to have a differing point of view.If he had used it, YES!!!! He would have sent some unknown number of the bastards to hell, and maybe even caught a blessed bullet of his own that would have spared his family and friends seeing him burned to death. True, end result the same. Net result, not even close.
I'd assume he flew in to combat with a sidearm. And I'd assume he either did or considered using his sidearm. If that's the case then having that weapon didn't change anything. I'm not sure having a carbine in addition to a sidearm would've changed his fate. That said having a carbine isn't necessarily a bad thing but a few extra bullets isn't going to change much if they want you bad. And I'd wager that an American Aviator alive is worth the trouble to capture. TheWe can certainly differ on the value of the weapon as an option. But I don't see my last post as opinion. Conjecture, I admit. Opinion, no. You seriously think if he had engaged his potential captors in gun fire, they could have taken him into custody alive, without sustaining any causalities themselves, or that they would not have killed him returning fire?
We can certainly differ on the value of the weapon as an option. But I don't see my last post as opinion. Conjecture, I admit. Opinion, no. You seriously think if he had engaged his potential captors in gun fire, they could have taken him into custody alive, without sustaining any causalities themselves, or that they would not have killed him returning fire?
You have to think the AF pointy nose/bomber community probably lobbied hard for something like this at whatever their equivalent of Tailhook is.
That's what happened to Durant.Yup, all those American aircrew in the battle of Mogadishu were saved by their citizenship. These people want to kill as many innocent American civilians as possible. I don't think wearing a flight suit will save you.
Of course Durant made it. And the rest? Somehow he was of value but they weren't? I think you hit on it though. The value you may bring as an American airman is the share you draw on evening TV as they behead you. Not the kind of value to the enemy I hope to be.That's what happened to Durant.
And I didn't necessarily mean a flight suit would save you, just inventive the enemy to take you alive so you can be exploited. the enemy knows that there is more value in exploiting a captured aircrew via the media. This may mean beheading or burning alive. But the exploitation value of American aircrew has been known and used since Korea.
Of course we don't know all the details. But I am pretty sure if he had tried to fight it out we would have heard about it from Jordanian press accounts lionizing him. But it doesn't matter. I was illustrating a point. And you have not replied on point.I'm not sure anyone here knows the details of his capture so I think to speculate on what he could or could not have done with whatever weapons were at his disposal is pretty foolish.
As I noted earlier in the thread, only two of the hundreds of carrier aircrew downed in Vietnam actually used their sidearms in combat. I don't disparage the notion of having heavier firepower but the rarity of their use make me question whether or not the appropriation for this effort could be better utilized.